I have some thoughts I wanted to post on the consent issue. But first a word about rape.

Although I'm male, on some level I get why rape/non-consensual sex is so horrifically offensive both in context or out of it. I find male rape scenes (like in Pulp Fiction and The Shield ), profoundly disturbing on more than an intellectual level. When I hear the constant references on television and in movies, about rape being an acceptable punitive and/or deterrent component to prison, I'm offended both morally and viscerally. There are no justifications for rape. None.

That being said, I'm not ready to define Echo's sex with clients as rape. The fact is, at least as far as the show has portrayed it, Caroline consented to becoming an Active. Until told otherwise, she knowingly consented to having her body used/manipulated/violated on a regular basis, and having her mind wiped so she would have no memory of the encounters.

I agree that this type of consent shouldn't be valid or legal or condoned. But that doesn't mean it's not consent. Yes, Caroline had no way of withdrawing her consent once she entered the program - but she knew the consent was irrevocable when she made it. It's still consent.

Take the German fellow who allowed himself to be killed and eaten by another fellow. That was consent. Once the other fellow killed him, there was no withdrawing the consent, yet this fellow gave it anyway. Should a person be able to consent to this type of activity? Absolutely not. The consent should be void as against public policy. Can a non-incompetent person consent to it? Yes.

Perhaps Caroline was forced to consent under duress? Let's find out. I'm intrigued at just how evil the Dollhouse will turn out to be, and the twisted moral code it runs by. Tony Soprano is twisted and interesting. So is Dexter Morgan. Heck so is Roman Grant, and (possible Big Love spoiler) not only does that twisted fuck sleep with young girls, he sends woman of all ages into non-consensual relationships all the time. And he's interesting as hell.

At the end of the day, it might turn out that Caroline is being raped by every client. Or maybe Caroline was assured that she'd have no memory of any of Echo's "missions" so if and when she recovers memory of these sexual acts maybe then it's rape. Or maybe then it turns out it was always rape. I don't know.

Wolfram, just to clarify: Someone sells herself to the mob as a prostitute, with the understanding that she is obligated until the contract is paid off. She tries to turn down a client, and two men with switch blades remind her she made an agreement and is expected to stick to it. Rape or not under your definition?

Rape. Consent under duress is not consent.

Echo not only consented to letting the company use her body but also to mess with her mind. This makes her at least partially responsible for her own victimization.

Echo not only consented to letting the company use her body but also to mess with her mind. This makes her at least partially responsible for her own victimization.

If she indeed knowingly consented to it all. I'm not convinced that she did. Or didn't. Or whom at Dollhouse knows how much she consented to or didn't consent to, and is thus complicit in any lack of consent.

I actually dug the second episode way more than the first. It's not amazing, but it's mostly entertaining. It's like at JJ Abrams level right now.

Echo not only consented to letting the company use her body but also to mess with her mind. This makes her at least partially responsible for her own victimization.

Mmmmm .... maybe, but I doubt there's any way she could have made an entirely informed decision, and again, as Wolfram sagely points out, the level of duress she was under when she made that decision is still an open question. On the surface, she seemed to be in very deep trouble of some sort.

But leaving the legalities aside for a moment, and even the ethics, I think there's a level of trauma that's inflicted on the Actives that, as is being insinuated just two episodes in, is severe, and indeed, leaves an (pardon the expression) echo. Whatever the Actives thought they were signing up for, I sincerely doubt this is it.

Completely on a different topic, I have phlebotanum for Topher.

So, normally, they use the technology to implant a hybrid personality, taken from multiple sources. But we've seen no reason why they couldn't do a simple 1:1 transfer. Especially if the person doing the transfer thought the person being transferred was so awesome as to not need improvement (as it seems pretty clear that Topher would). So, his personality could be a lot older than his body.

Don't know where he would have gotten the body from, though.

DebetEsse, whose transfer are you talking about? I'm having trouble following.

Sorry. I'm thinking that, while Topher is the one who developed the technology, he used it to transfer his "self" into a new body at some point.

But leaving the legalities aside for a moment, and even the ethics, I think there's a level of trauma that's inflicted on the Actives that, as is being insinuated just two episodes in, is severe, and indeed, leaves an (pardon the expression) echo. Whatever the Actives thought they were signing up for, I sincerely doubt this is it.

I get that same vibe. But it brings up another question: if the Dollhouse didn't know about this subconscious trauma, are they culpable for failing to advise the Actives about it? Are they Big Tobacco denying any harmful effects, or are they really being taken by surprise?

Sorry. I'm thinking that, while Topher is the one who developed the technology, he used it to transfer his "self" into a new body at some point.

Like a body jumper? Cool theory, but my impression is that each personality is more like a copy of the former person, than the original. That you could theoretically create two of the same Active would seem to support this.

Still, cool theory.