Rape. Consent under duress is not consent.

Echo not only consented to letting the company use her body but also to mess with her mind. This makes her at least partially responsible for her own victimization.

Echo not only consented to letting the company use her body but also to mess with her mind. This makes her at least partially responsible for her own victimization.

If she indeed knowingly consented to it all. I'm not convinced that she did. Or didn't. Or whom at Dollhouse knows how much she consented to or didn't consent to, and is thus complicit in any lack of consent.

I actually dug the second episode way more than the first. It's not amazing, but it's mostly entertaining. It's like at JJ Abrams level right now.

Echo not only consented to letting the company use her body but also to mess with her mind. This makes her at least partially responsible for her own victimization.

Mmmmm .... maybe, but I doubt there's any way she could have made an entirely informed decision, and again, as Wolfram sagely points out, the level of duress she was under when she made that decision is still an open question. On the surface, she seemed to be in very deep trouble of some sort.

But leaving the legalities aside for a moment, and even the ethics, I think there's a level of trauma that's inflicted on the Actives that, as is being insinuated just two episodes in, is severe, and indeed, leaves an (pardon the expression) echo. Whatever the Actives thought they were signing up for, I sincerely doubt this is it.

Completely on a different topic, I have phlebotanum for Topher.

So, normally, they use the technology to implant a hybrid personality, taken from multiple sources. But we've seen no reason why they couldn't do a simple 1:1 transfer. Especially if the person doing the transfer thought the person being transferred was so awesome as to not need improvement (as it seems pretty clear that Topher would). So, his personality could be a lot older than his body.

Don't know where he would have gotten the body from, though.

DebetEsse, whose transfer are you talking about? I'm having trouble following.

Sorry. I'm thinking that, while Topher is the one who developed the technology, he used it to transfer his "self" into a new body at some point.

But leaving the legalities aside for a moment, and even the ethics, I think there's a level of trauma that's inflicted on the Actives that, as is being insinuated just two episodes in, is severe, and indeed, leaves an (pardon the expression) echo. Whatever the Actives thought they were signing up for, I sincerely doubt this is it.

I get that same vibe. But it brings up another question: if the Dollhouse didn't know about this subconscious trauma, are they culpable for failing to advise the Actives about it? Are they Big Tobacco denying any harmful effects, or are they really being taken by surprise?

Sorry. I'm thinking that, while Topher is the one who developed the technology, he used it to transfer his "self" into a new body at some point.

Like a body jumper? Cool theory, but my impression is that each personality is more like a copy of the former person, than the original. That you could theoretically create two of the same Active would seem to support this.

Still, cool theory.

Are they Big Tobacco denying any harmful effects, or are they really being taken by surprise?

They know about Alpha. At the very least, no matter what measures they took afterward, they know for a fact that there's a risk of big old massive, psychotic side effects.

Yeah, but with Alpha they left a more competent base personality intact between missions. Someone who already had some skills. They may think that by taking the actives even lower fundtionally that they won't have the same problem.