My take on that* is actually that one always has the right to withdraw consent.

Maybe I'm being too particular, but if I'm going to let some guy stick his dick in me, I want to at least know who he is before it gets started.

You're not being too particular! In fact, I think that probably nobody should consent in advance, but I'm not sure I believe that it's not possible.

If you can't identify who's going to shag you, I don't think you can consent, next-guy-to-buy-me-a-drink notwithstanding.

Okay, why not? At what point do you have enough information to consent?

(*"that" being prostitution and the whole consent-beforehand issue. I got distracted before I could post.)

a) It's clear that the Dollhouse setup is unethical and the show itself makes that clear.

Maybe I watch too much TV, but has there been a point in what we've seen so far where we're supposed to think that the Dollhouse is right in what they do? Like, maybe I'm giving Show too much credit for things it's not adequately showing, but from minute one I thought that the Dollhouse folks were the bad guys in this scenario.

When they're there. Consent kinda doesn't count if you're not about to perform the act. It's just intent, agreement, until then.

has there been a point in what we've seen so far where we're supposed to think that the Dollhouse is right in what they do?

If it weren't for the Dollhouse, the kidnapped girl in the pilot would have been raped and murdered. It was very specifically set up so that only "Miss Penn" could have put that together in time to prevent it.

has there been a point in what we've seen so far where we're supposed to think that the Dollhouse is right in what they do?

No, I don't think we're supposed to think they're right, but handler-guy said that British-woman likes to tell herself they're doing good. That was never explained, but I think we're supposed to believe that they find a way to excuse it to themselves.

If it weren't for the Dollhouse, the kidnapped girl in the pilot would have been raped and murdered. It was very specifically set up so that only "Miss Penn" could have put that together in time to prevent it.

Yeah, but they wanted the guy's money! He's frightened and desperate! Of course they were going to tell him that they're the best solution for getting his girl back! I just don't know that the people who are running the evil organization should count as a reliable narrator.

And, in the meta sense, if the guy doesn't agree to have the Dollhouse fix his problem, then there isn't a show. Sloppy when you compare it with real life? Sure. But how often do TV formulaic scenarios actually reflect how real life operates?

Yeah, but they wanted the guy's money! He's frightened and desperate! Of course they were going to tell him that they're the best solution for getting his girl back!

I'm not talking about the characters setting up that way, I'm talking about Joss.

The Dollhouse operators didn't know that they were sending their client a hostage negotiator with the imprinted memories of a girl who was molested by one of the kidnappers. But without those memories, another hostage negotiator wouldn't have guessed that the current victim was at risk for rape/death until it was too late. Take the Dollhouse out of the situation and the girl dies. That's how the ep is written.

That's how the ep is written.

And that's what makes me wonder how much of the content of that episode is Joss and how much is network effect.

I think consent can happen without knowing the other person, in rare instances. For example, if a guy uses a glory hole, he could have no idea who is going to give him a blow job but I would say that he has consented.

I don't think that we're supposed to think they're good, just that they facilitated a good thing. I think we're supposed to regard them as dodgy at best, and that's one of the points of the show.