I know I'm a bad poet, but I'm a good man. All I ask is that... is that you try to see me—

William ,'Conversations with Dead People'


Jossverse 1: Emotional Resonance & Rocket Launchers  

TV, movies, web media--this thread is the home for any Joss projects that don't already have their own threads, such as Dr. Horrible.


Ailleann - Feb 24, 2009 11:50:49 am PST #117 of 5827
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda

The clients have to be paying insane amounts of money, and when you have someone paying that much, they want a guarantee that their experience will be perfect.

They are also assembling these imprints from existing personalities, which means they can probably tailor the probability of acceptance/refusal.

After all, if a man just wants a woman who will 100% sleep with him, he can hire a prostitute. This is a different kind of thing.


Connie Neil - Feb 24, 2009 11:53:59 am PST #118 of 5827
brillig

if a man just wants a woman who will 100% sleep with him, he can hire a prostitute

Except the prostitute knows she's been bought, and the client knows she knows etc.

An Active doesn't know s/he's been bought.

And now I'm wondering about male Actives and male clients--or female clients and female Actives


Typo Boy - Feb 24, 2009 11:54:08 am PST #119 of 5827
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I think what Teppy is saying that sure they start by creating someone who would want to have sex (or go to the comic book store) with the client. But they are not going to rely on that tendency. So the Dollhouse also does a tweak to guarantee that so long as certain parameters are not violated the active will follow that desire - not get a headache not fall out of the mood for sex, not decide that even though they love comics they would rather go to a movie that day. [ On edit: should not attribute my guess to Teppy. But at any rate a reasonable guess given the incentives for the Dollhouse.]

As for the girl-hunter. I don't know whether it was the violation of the contract, or simply that the "no free will" is a programmed range of behaviors in response to another range of behaviors. When that is exceeded, then the active has a choice of how to behave, and since actives are valuable probably a healthy wish to survive.

In terms of titillation: it was a brief scene before the hostage negotiation. Given the context I think pretty obviously post-good-sex dancing and playing, along with actual sex flash backs were intended as titillation.


Vortex - Feb 24, 2009 12:04:47 pm PST #120 of 5827
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

And now I'm wondering about male Actives and male clients--or female clients and female Actives

I was thinking about that. I'm sure that the boys are watching the show, thinking "oh, that's so awesome, a hot girl guaranteed to sleep with you no matter what" But, I doubt that they would think that it was so hot if a male active was programmed to sleep with a male client.


Vortex - Feb 24, 2009 12:08:30 pm PST #121 of 5827
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

Also, there are some things that are programmed against their will, like the desire to return for their "treatment". Echo was having a good time with motorcycle guy, she suddenly stopped and returned to the van as if compelled.


§ ita § - Feb 24, 2009 12:09:54 pm PST #122 of 5827
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Wasn't she filled with an urgency to have her treatment? I think that was kinda her will too, just...a choice she'd always make.

Perhaps that's too much semantic juggling. I'm not convincing myself.


Jon B. - Feb 24, 2009 12:15:54 pm PST #123 of 5827
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!

Given the context I think pretty obviously post-good-sex dancing and playing, along with actual sex flash backs were intended as titillation.

Perhaps, but you said "as titillating as possible." It wasn't even close.


Matt the Bruins fan - Feb 24, 2009 12:26:56 pm PST #124 of 5827
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

And the clients want a guarantee, given the amount of money they're paying.

We don't know that. The client may be paying vast sums precisely to get a hot woman who's likely—but not guaranteed—to fall for them if they play their cards right rather than a standard hooker who'll say she's fallen for them and not mean a word. I think the challenge of making it a collaborative fantasy would play a big part, as someone who doesn't care about the veracity of the emotions could certainly hire a top-notch escort and buy her some preparatory acting lessons for a lot less than $5 million.

Or, what Ailleann said.


Typo Boy - Feb 24, 2009 12:30:23 pm PST #125 of 5827
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

OK, it was more the second that was as titillating as possible. The first was still pretty damn titillating.


Topic!Cindy - Feb 24, 2009 12:36:48 pm PST #126 of 5827
What is even happening?

One day Eliza Dushku might surprise me by doing something she didn't intend to look sexy doing onscreen, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Oh, yeah. I mean she is naturally sexy; I wish it just didn't always read so intentional. Then again, I find unintentional sexiness much sexier.

I don't want to seem like a rape defender, but it's not Echo. It's a fully created personality outside of "Echo", and that personality has consensual sex.

I am in no way saying that this makes the rape issues go away, I'm just saying that I think identity is an important component.

We're doing all this talking about mind-wipes (which I imagine to some of us, as Buffy fans, has a certain magical context to it), and sophisticated roofies, etc. In the end, to me, she is being brainwashed. The girl is still inside there, but people are brainwashing her to do things and some of those things she arguably couldn't and/or wouldn't do. A drunk person is unable to (legally) consent to sex. So when it comes to sex, I think if you brainwash a person into having sex with you, you're raping them -- because you're taking away their ability to consent. Her mind is being addled. She has no ability to consent. Therefore, to me, it's rape.

It's rape like it was when Warren did whatever he did to Katrina. When she came to -- that is, when she got her own personality rose back to her conscious state -- she knew it was rape.