Are sharks stupid? More stupid than the alien? What's the difference? It's all one big biological imperative.

I agree about it all being a biological imperative, but I think (in Aliens at least) we're supposed to be surprised by their intelligence.

I don't think horror requires evil. I'd be horrified if a shark was closing in on me even if I was just food to the shark.

It requires Fear of Death. Actually a lot of horror is about plying the Uncanny Valley - creatures which are only somewhat human, or debased or Unclean violate certain lizard brain rules of propriety.

I'd be horrified if a shark was closing in on me even if I was just food to the shark.

Yeah, but if you saw a movie where someone became shark food, would that make it a horror movie?

Hmmm... I'm leaning toward "no."

Yeah, but if you saw a movie where someone became shark food, would that make it a horror movie?

What can I say? I saw it in the theater when it first came out. The audience reacted to it like a horror audience, not an action adventure audience. It wasn't just suspense, it was fear.

But can't you say the same about the body-snatching aliens?

I thought about that in my bracketed pause of pondering! And yes, you can, but the *movie* isn't about that; that's something you think about afterwards, maybe. I guess: in Jaws you have a character who's right there enthusing about how sure, sharks'll do this. They're built for it. Yessiree, if the bite it took out of the corpse is this big, that's a Great White Shark for ya! Neat!

...Okay, I'm probably paraphrasing. But the characters aren't reacting like it's Evil. It's unfortunate and needs to be stopped, but that's a different vibe.

In Alien/Bodysnatchers/etc., the characters and the audience are (at least ideally) *horrified.* I think it's different from being scared. If something jumps out and goes boo, that's scary. But when there are people who look exactly like your friends but aren't? Or are, except there's a chestburster popping out of them as they die in front of you? Or they're actually a robot working for your employer who doesn't care if you live or die? That shit is horrifying.

Also: Hug a horta, people.

I so need to sleep...

But the characters aren't reacting like it's Evil. It's unfortunate and needs to be stopped, but that's a different vibe.

No, I think there's a distinct difference between how Richard Dreyfus' character reacts to the shark and Robert Shaw's character's reaction. The story Quint tells about WW II and the sharks picking off the sailors is a horror story.

Quint's story is even more affecting because it comes at the end of the great scar-comparing scene, and then, after the story, the barrel pops up.

We're going to need a bigger boat!

Jaws is a horror movie, but it's also a comedy.

I concede that the aliens (do they have a more identifying name?) are more intelligent than sharks, but it's all in service of a predator mode. They're not composing sonnets to each other inbetween kills, or working out how to score a non-procreational shag. They're killing/reproducing machines.

The story Quint tells about WW II and the sharks picking off the sailors is a horror story.

Dude, I totally said that upthread! Also, I have totally had too much beer, and I am going on like 5 hours of sleep, and you can totally tell because I cannot stop saying totally! And also dude!

I turn into a Valley Girl when I'm drunk, and I don't know why. ANYWAY.

I'm just saying Jaws isn't a horror story overall. Quint's story is definitely (i.e. totally) a horror story nested within it. So... er, neener, maybe?

And I'm also reserving the right to sleep A LOT tonight, and sober up and tomorrow claim I don't know what the hell I'm going on about. But right now this distinction makes so much sense in my head (totally!). Even if I'm unable to articulate it.