I did previously like Ruffalo when he was on Colbert. And he was perfectly okay in You Can Count on Me. I didn't love that movie in general but the performances were good.

i'm enjoying reading everyone's thinky thoughts on The Avengers. i saw it a third time today. i am wondering about ita's hate-on for Renner though.

I don't hate him. I just don't think he's good looking or particularly convincing. But it's okay. Recasting Colin fixes everything, including the apple boxing.

Call me, Hollywood, call me.

different strokes! he was my second fave after Tony.

Weird. I've always liked Ruffalo, but have been disappointed in the roles he's played. I can't remember the name of the movie where I saw him first, but he died quickly, and I was extremely sad to see him leave the screen. I like his face and his voice and find him incredibly sweet.

he was my second fave after Tony.

I find I didn't really mind him being terribly underwritten, since I was digging everyone else's screen time more anyway. His performance just didn't hit...well, any note with me really. I don't feel there was any revelation of his character--I know him as well as I did after Thor, and I also felt like he was reciting his lines, which is a big accomplishment when you're acting against/with ASSCAPS OF ASGARD. My Avengers feels go Coulson, Cap, Nick, Tony, Thor, Hulk, Natasha, and the chick from HIMYM, pretty much.

I stayed up too late last night watching Captain America. No regrets, that was good stuff.

Ha, me too! I do love that movie. Especially all the little Steve/Peggy moments. I ♥ Peggy.

I just don't think he's good looking or particularly convincing.

That's OK! More Renner for meeeee!

He's convinced he's superior to everyone who isn't Odin and Thor, convinced that he's been wronged by Odin and Thor, and really wants to Show Them that he's just as good as they are and They'll Be Sorry They Ever... oh, whatever, emo kid. He says he never wanted the throne, he just wanted to be Thor's equal. That's the motivation. He wanted Odin and Thor to see him as Thor's equal, and when he felt he'd lost the chance to prove that (by fucking up his opportunistic takeover of Asgard), he spun completely out of control and went off to destroy stuff. There were a couple points in the movie I could see him realizing he's gone way too far, but he doesn't see a way out that doesn't involve asking for forgiveness, so...

This. ZenKitty's take on Loki is also mine. I enjoyed Loki thoroughly. He's crazy as a bag of cats and he's a fun villain played by an excellent, charismatic actor. The snark certainly helped. (One of my fave bits: in the middle of a heart-to-heart -- at least from Thor's POV -- in the mountains, Iron man WHAMS into Thor and takes him away and Loki goes "... yes? I'm listening?" HEE!) I have zero patience for fandom's woobiefication of him though. Yes, his backstory is affecting, and the knowledge of his parentage was a huge blow. But his reaction to that was 1) genocide against his own race, 2) attempted patricide and fratricide. The dude did not go over to the deep end because "he wasn't loved enough." (My eyes rolleth forever) The bag-of-cats-ness was already there and this was just a nudge.

But you know, fandom wants what it wants. It has always loved its bad boy woobies. Hell, *I* have loved some of its bad boy woobies. If they want him redeemed, that urge can be spent on writing epic-length fic in which Loki actually shows some freakin' remorse and tries to atone for the shit he pulled, instead of this blame-shifting where it was all Odin's/Thor's/Avenger's/Bad Gene Being Born a Frostie's fault. I might even read some of it.

Actually, what's cool about the Avenger's fandom that's exploding all over the place is its variety. We all have our favourites and the source material is just expansive enough without being too overwhelming to allow all of us to play in our corner of the pool. For some of us, it's Loki. Others are all about Steve, or Steve/Tony. Some are busy writing fix-it fic for Coulson. Or Tony and Bruce being science bros (OK, I want more of that, please.) Me, I'm all about Natasha. She was my favourite thing in the movie, and I fucking loved her vulnerable moments, as much if not more than her kickass moments -- her vulnerabilities made her more interesting to me. The hints at her backstory and her long-standing bond with Hawkeye really got me where I live. I want ALL the fic about her spy training and red in her ledger. (And a Black Widow movie!) And the fandom seems big enough and there is enough interest in most of these different aspects of the movie to allow it to flourish in every which direction. I love that.

I wonder if there are fans of the paper Captain America who are dissatisfied with what they saw onscreen. I find him kinda boring in the comics, and compelling on the big screen. Are whatever differences explain that bothersome to people who were his fans pre-2011?

I do wonder, but there's no way for me to articulate the differences I see (what with the boringess of Cap on paper meaning I haven't read much recently) to be able to ask the question in detail.

Maybe they feel about him the way I feel about Natasha, that she didn't survive the transition in a way that kept me with her. I haven't recast her yet in my head, but that would certainly be a start. It's not everything, though.

I saw a lot of people complaining about Maria Hill and calling her unlikeable, but I *think* that was before the movie. Does anyone here have much familiarity with her character on paper? She seemed perfectly fine onscreen.