As has been discussed here in the past, there are not-so-secret Hudson Hawk fans amongst the Buffistae.

Why don't I own that yet on DVD? I mean, seriously? Oh right, because Pete is a crazy person who didn't like it the one time he saw it. (But he admits that he'd probably like it now if he saw it.)

Unsurprisingly, my Dad LOVES Hudson Hawk.

Full disclosure: I don't really like it, and I certainly am not bothered by a remake. I'll totally go see that. But did you guys *like* it? Did you respect it in the morning, or was there a walk of shame involved?

I wanted the Cronenberg version. I'm reading the same book, ita !, but I knew some history of TR because I read a lot about Cronenberg. I LOVED Robocop, but Total Recall was a film I thought just didn't do its premise any justice apart from the one or two scenes that feel straight out of Cronenberg.

Also - BIG Hudson Hawk fan here.

What relationship do you feel the director/writer was trying to get you to have with the protagonists in a movie like The Hangover? Do you consider this different from the relationship with the protagonists in Bridesmaids? (I hate to pull out two pre-wedding movies, but The Hangover was the first male buddy shenanigans movie I could think of)

To me, The Hangover kept its characters less fully sympathetic, and didn't seem to mind if you laughed at them, as opposed to with them, and there's not supposed to be a turning point for the characters where they stop being asses, as far as I can remember it. So I don't think it's an equivalent to Bridesmaids on that level.

What is the female equivalent to The Hangover? Has it been made? Do you think the American public will buy women being viewed that way?

I don't know about that -- the dentist character stood up to his horrible wife, and decided to start dating the stripper, and we saw Bradley Cooper's relationship with his wife and son, which was a lot sweeter and more mature than you might have expected. Zach Galifinakis's (no idea if I spelled that right) character didn't grow, per se, but his real and earnest desire for friends was finally revealed (as opposed to him being strictly the comic relief fuck-up).

I feel like there used to be more female comedies, way back, that would be closer to the dynamic of The Hangover -- something like one of the Shelley Long/Bette Midler ones?

It looks like there was only one -- Outrageous Fortune. But that and maybe 9 to 5 are examples?

I haven't seen Hangover 2. Have they learnt any life lessons that stick with them into that movie, or do they rewind them to a more mockable state?

As you can see, for me, they didn't change enough that I thought I was supposed to *like* them, but I never thought that was the point. They might be the sort of guys you'd have a beer with and watch the game with, but you wouldn't let them date your sister.

Do you feel that's too harsh a judgement?

I wouldn't let Galifinakis's character anywhere near my sister, mostly because I'm not sure he's entirely stable, but the others? Sure. The dentist character seems like a solid guy when he's not getting shitfaced in Vegas, and even Bradley Cooper's character was pretty charming with his wife and kid.

That said, I didn't The Hangover II, so I'm basing my opinion on the first one only.

I went to watch The Hunger Games again this afternoon. I liked it better the second time around. I enjoyed the movie the first time, but was more preoccupied with the things that were different from the book then. This time, I concentrated more on the performances, and boy, does Jennifer Lawrence ever step up to the plate. Katniss' emotional reserve, her steeliness, her vulnerability and her fierce loyalty all come through in such a beautifully understated fashion. Also: the camera never leers at her, but the girl is a serious knockout. I spent a lot of time just gaping at her.

A small moment that just killed me -- Prim carefully tucking her blouse in as she walks to the stage after having her name called. I loved the young actress who played Prim, and her scenes with Lawrence had all kinds of heartbreaking tenderness. (Spoilers for all the books): I am going to be such a mess at the end of Mockingjay. God.

The dentist character seems like a solid guy when he's not getting shitfaced in Vegas, and even Bradley Cooper's character was pretty charming with his wife and kid.

Hmm. I guess I'm judgemental and short-tempered, but I just don't see how someone with good decision-making capabilities gets into shenanigans like that, so by virtue of that, they don't date into the family. And that's not taking into consideration there's some combination of circumstance that gets them into another situation worthy of great laughter.

But, basically, this is on my mind because I found almost everyone in Bridesmaids also intensely unlikable, but I felt there was a clear effort to clean up the protagonists and get us on their side by the time the movie ended, and I just didn't get that sensation with The Hangover. Like, it doesn't matter as much if we respect those crazy guys, you know?

And I'm trying to work out what I'm projecting.

Once we found out they'd been given roofies, I wasn't judgmental anymore. Also, the whole thing was so completely over the top, I don't think there was realistically enough time for them to do everything they supposedly did. That, and I don't think anyone is running around that crazy when they've been roofied, are they?

I think they wanted the guys in The Hangover to seem respectable(ish) at the end, but also that it didn't matter if you thought they were all giant dopes because the movie was funny.

I liked Annie in Bridesmaids, and Lillian, too (although I did want Annie to stop being so stubborn and figure out what she was doing with her life a little sooner). I liked Helen by the end, and I loved Megan because she was so fucking honest about herself and her life and what she liked, I couldn't not. The other two were sort of useless filler.

Yeah, I shouldn't try holding The Hangover to any sort of standard. It just won't hold up. That's not a good example.

I did *not* like Annie. I didn't mind Lillian. I could give her a pass, because she was getting married, and that's a whirlwind, but Annie kept making her own life a mess, and blaming other people for it, and it really irritated me. I felt like they had a very abrupt turning point with both Megan and Annie after which we were supposed to like them--Annie as the main arc of the movie, and Megan when she acted as the catalyst for Annie, because that was the first non-self-centred thing she'd done in the movie.

I just couldn't work out any reason other than habit those people were friends with each other. I need that sort of thing in a party of friends story. Or something to make it explicit that it's habit.

And, yeah, those other two--whatevs. Did they actually even have the lesbian hookup?