Is The Avengers a bigger team for Marvel than the Fantastic Four? In my head, X-Men are Marvel's JLA--not in any sort of narrative parallel, just that they're the first team a random guy on the street would think of from their imprint.

What's the second?

Also, Joss is driving hard the outsider nature of this particular group of misfits. I'm not familiar enough with the comic to know if that's a constant, recent, pulled from history, or irrelevant to their paper canon--can anyone clarify for me?

I ask because X-Men is all about being outside of mainstream, and I was wondering if Marvel was truly most successful at that well (like, again, Spider-Man), and DC tends to do so much better with the cool kids.

Not entirely a movie question, but I like you guys.

Joss is driving hard the outsider nature of this particular group of misfits

I could see that for Thor (alien) and the Hulk. I don't know the Black Widow or Hawkeye's stories well enough to say. Tony Stark doesn't seem very outsider-y to me, though. Rich, white, male US industrialist, doesn't want the guv'ment to touch his stuff, has issues with an emotionally distant daddy . . . aside from being in the 1%, being the best in his tech field, and using his privilege and power for good, he's pretty much the gold standard insider.

I think Tony Stark is more an outsider in terms of the superhero community. Doesn't he even have a line to that effect in the trailer? ("I don't play well with others," something like that? Basically asking Nick Fury why he would want Tony on the team, since he's such a Batman lone wolf vigilante?

I think Tony Stark is more an outsider in terms of the superhero community.

I could see that.

EW has the or rather one of the songs that Arcade Fire contributed to the Hunger Games' soundtrack.

Okay, I just *had* to watch the trailer again -- Tony tells Nick Fury (I assume; or maybe Agent Coulson) "I thought I didn't qualify. Apparently I'm -- what is it? -- volatile, self-obsessed, and don't play well with others."

So maybe not outsider in terms of non-superhero society, but I'd say he's a self-selected superhero outsider.

The outsider thing isn't my reading, it's Loki's. He calls them misfits in the trailer. I'm just trying to chase down the canon support for it.

Jeremy Renner has cited his character's outsiderness as stemming from the loneliness of the sniper. Black Widow has easily accessible outsiderness because she's female and not superpowered, and because she's officially trained for the job.

Thor's a god/alien, Cap's from olden times, Hulk is a monster, Stark self-selects to stay on the fringes (and, by definition, being 1% wouldn't seem to make you fit *in*). It's all pretty easy to achieve, but I don't know if they bother with it in the comics, not least of all because it's got the most variable team lineup ever.

I think Tony Stark is more an outsider in terms of the superhero community.

Absolutely. If I recall correctly, he was basically on the anti-superhero side during Civil War.

not least of all because it's got the most variable team lineup ever.

This is the weird thing. I mean, Spider-Man was on the Avengers at one point, or maybe still. Spider-Man! Also I think he was one of the X-Men somehow. I saw ads.

I think the X-Men is the only big group Spidey hasn't been a member of. He's been an Avenger and a fill-in member of the Fantastic Four.

It's probably about entry requirements. The Avengers take just about anyone heroic (and it apparently helps to have been on the wrong side of the law), and the FF is family, which Peter is an honorary member of via being Johnny Storm's 2nd best friend.

In my head, X-Men are Marvel's JLA--not in any sort of narrative parallel, just that they're the first team a random guy on the street would think of from their imprint.

I'm with you, in that the X-Men are the first team I think of from Marvel, but I know more than enough Captain America/Avengers fans that I think there would be large chunk of random strangers that might think of the Avengers as Marvel's JLA before they would think of the X-Men that way.