No studying? Damn! Next thing they'll tell me is I'll have to eat jelly doughnuts or sleep with a supermodel to get things done around here. I ask you, how much can one man give?

Xander ,'Conversations with Dead People'


Spike's Bitches 44: It's about the rules having changed.  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Hil R. - Mar 13, 2009 11:49:14 am PDT #3475 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I'm trying to figure out if Elsie Dinsmore is supposed to be set before or after the Civil War. It takes place in the south, and the servants in the house are referred to as "servant," and they're all black. Elsie's relationship with her "mammy" seems really odd -- her mammy, called Aunt Chloe is the one who seems to have done the most in terms of actually raising her, since most of the other adults pretty much just paid enough attention to make sure she was fed and clothed and quiet until her father returned when she was eight, so Aunt Chloe is the one who's doing a lot of parent-type things for her, but Aunt Chloe is also most definitely seen as her servant -- there's one scene where Elsie needs some beads, and asks Aunt Chloe to ask one of the other servants to buy them for her while he's in town. The other servant says that he won't have time, so Aunt Chloe decides to go herself to buy them. But before she can go, she has to ask Elsie's permission to leave the house.

This book just keeps getting more disturbing.


Daisy Jane - Mar 13, 2009 11:53:49 am PDT #3476 of 30000
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Elsie's relationship with her "mammy" seems really odd -- her mammy, called Aunt Chloe is the one who seems to have done the most in terms of actually raising her, since most of the other adults pretty much just paid enough attention to make sure she was fed and clothed and quiet until her father returned when she was eight, so Aunt Chloe is the one who's doing a lot of parent-type things for her, but Aunt Chloe is also most definitely seen as her servant -- there's one scene where Elsie needs some beads, and asks Aunt Chloe to ask one of the other servants to buy them for her while he's in town. The other servant says that he won't have time, so Aunt Chloe decides to go herself to buy them. But before she can go, she has to ask Elsie's permission to leave the house.

Not actually that odd for the South (sadly, even fairly recently). There's a story in my family about one of the children slapping the black woman who raised them, and no one so much as raised an eyebrow.


Toddson - Mar 13, 2009 11:56:47 am PDT #3477 of 30000
Friends don't let friends read "Atlas Shrugged"

awww


Hil R. - Mar 13, 2009 12:41:39 pm PDT #3478 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Why does Elsie keep trying to please her father? Can't she see that this man is a psychopath? Any even vaguely normal child would at the very least resent him, but she keeps trying and trying to get even the tiniest little bit of approval from him. If he smiles at her at breakfast, she's happy all day; and if he ignores her, she spends all day trying to find some way to be a very very good girl so that maybe he'll love her. And he's enforcing this -- he demands complete obedience, won't let her visit her friends, won't let her do the stuff that all the other kids in the house do, and generally just keeps on narrowing her world until his approval is the only reward she can get, and she's desperate for it. Why the hell would anyone write this stuff in a book for kids?


Typo Boy - Mar 13, 2009 12:43:00 pm PDT #3479 of 30000
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I was once given a "boys" book from the 20's or 30's. It featured a boy/adventurer character with photos of the actor who played him in film serials doing his daily dozens. The particular book feature the boy/adventurer visiting an island where a few white men ruled over dark skinned natives who were "so lazy they had to to be whipped to make them work". Boy adventurer is key in suppressing a revolt by the natives, who apparently are not too lazy to fight for their freedom. However, with help from the boy adventurer, the white men are able to put down the result and whip the natives back to work. And again, this was from the 20's or 30's. Why I did not hang on to the book is obvious. but now I wish I'd kept it. I'm pretty sure a lot people who write on the history of racism would be interested.


Toddson - Mar 13, 2009 12:44:45 pm PDT #3480 of 30000
Friends don't let friends read "Atlas Shrugged"

Hil, I think the idea was to get young people - especially girls - convinced that it was their duty to obey their parents - especially their fathers - regardless of any kind of rationality. This was a time when breaking a child's spirit was regarded as a good thing - that they were wild beasts that needed to be tamed.

Can I tell you how grateful I am that it's the 21st century?


Hil R. - Mar 13, 2009 12:46:03 pm PDT #3481 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Until I'd read this, the weirdest scene that I'd seen in an old kids book, from a gender perspective, was in the first Bobbsey Twins book, where a girl faints while jump roping, and every says that the doctor warned her mother about that, that jumping is far too strenuous for a girl.


Hil R. - Mar 13, 2009 12:48:14 pm PDT #3482 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I've read other kids books from this same period, and never seen anything that even approached this.


Typo Boy - Mar 13, 2009 12:51:06 pm PDT #3483 of 30000
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I think where you might find something comparable from the same period is in temperance literature. (There was a lot of children's stuff being published at that time against the evils of drink,)


Hil R. - Mar 13, 2009 12:55:30 pm PDT #3484 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

The Vision Forum sells these books in their Beautiful Girlhood collection. [link]

Over the last several years, I have heard hundreds of reports from homeschoolers and Christian families about the blessings these books have been in their lives. Elsie raises the standard of godly womanhood to new heights. Feminists will not be happy with Elsie. She is a God-honoring young woman who strives to solve problems while working through biblical authority structures.