For Teppy.

My basic argument. it isn't a civil right, but health care is a basic need for a civilized society. And Seriously, if all the poor people die off, who is going to clean you office.

There was an article in the NY Times a week or two back about this issue. The author noted that in the rest of the developed world, provision of basic health services is just part of being in a community. (And, of course, that was the whole original idea of insurance, for everyone to pool their risk together). But in America, for too many people that kind of community feeling gets short-circuited by the fear that someone, somewhere, is Getting More Than Their Share. (The thought that someone is getting less than their share doesn't seem to excite the imagination in quite the same way.)

We have that strain in Australia too. (And hey, there are people getting more than their share, and welfare fraud is worth pursuing, but you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.) But we also have universal health care coverage for non-elective stuff, and a regulated health insurance industry, and dammit, if I need to see a doctor I know my insurer will cover them, just by virtue of them being properly licensed.

IN a nutshell, I agree with beth. I don't care whether one regards it as a right or not. A society has no standing to call itself civilised if it doesn't make provision for its most vulnerable members.

(There are also a few economic reasons why the US health insurance industry functions poorly re market efficiency, and I think they're very relevant to working out a better way and indeed making the economic case for health reform; but ultimately, for me it comes back to whether you want to be a civilised society or not.)

When I mentioned it to a coworker, he said, "Sure. I do that too. If the place smells like dead scorpion, maybe the other scorpions won't want to come around anymore."

Interesting plan. Of course, they're cannibals, so it may not bother them so much. I don't think it'd attract them though, they're not scavengers,

I would much rather have palmetto bugs than the little German roaches. My first house and a couple of apartments had huge infestations of German roaches, to the point that when I turned on the kitchen light at night, the counters were moving.

Yeah, that's a strong ick factor right there. Apparently roach movements (the common ones, anyway) can largely be explained by just two considerations - how dark is it, and how many other roaches are there?

The world's largest (though not longest) roach lives in Australia, but in tropical regions, well away from Melbourne. (Plus, it doesn't fly and isn't considered a pest.)

the fear that someone, somewhere, is Getting More Than Their Share.

I've argued before that this is the entire driving value of the current right wing in the US. It is the only framework that explains the anti-abortion, anti-immigrant, "what's wrong with Kansas" shit which honestly is completely fucking unbelievable otherwise.

(I don't mean that people can't legitimately have differences of opinion. But the way that people will vote and act so entirely against their own interests when they're barely scraping by as is? This is where is comes from.)

New York City used to have Rattus rattus (known as black rats, roof rats or ship rats), and Rattus norvegicus (brown rats). The brown rats are bigger and meaner and killed all the roof rats.

Just so they're not on my roof.

So far as you know.

That's not directed at Connie's DH.

I was just going to take that in the spirit of general positiveness.

But the way that people will vote and act so entirely against their own interests when they're barely scraping by as is?

Someone told me once that people do this because it makes them feel wealthier/more affluent even if it clearly is against their interest.

My parents have friends, family of four, who currently have NO health insurance. But the are opposed to any health reform. I don't know why but it's 100% aganst their interest. Oh, but they don't mind moving to Canada and using their healthcare. Totally nuts, I think.

Oh, but they don't mind moving to Canada and using their healthcare.

!??! So they are OK with Canadian taxes, just not US?

I know. It made NO sense. I asked my dad the same question but he couldn't answer either.

That way they wouldn't destroy the Canadian way of life, which is already a lost cause, anyway?