I think part of the argument for doctors' salaries is the crushing amount of debt most people go into during the lengthy training process. How does that work in other places? The whole thing feels a little chicken-and-egg to me, and then I start thinking about social workers, who, granted, only need a master's degree, but who make really minimal salaries to start, and only reasonable ones later.

Also, specialists would make more.

I found this blog post here, which is mostly about the confusion of the average salaries in Canada, but there are a few posts in the comments from Cdn. specialists that make it seem like they make more in Canada than they've been offered for jobs in the US.

[link]

This is interesting: Japanese Use Obama's Speeches To Learn English

TOKYO — Aspiring English speakers in Japan have made President Barack Obama's book of speeches and accompanying CD a national best-seller.

In Aichi, central Japan, a Buddhist monk has reportedly been playing the president's speeches during his temple service. And dozens of students in an English-language class in Tokyo have been memorizing his 2004 Democratic Convention speech to improve their understanding and pronunciation.

"Tonight is a particular honor for me because, let's face it, my presence on this stage is pretty unlikely," the students at Kaplan Japan school recited together Friday.

"The Speeches of Barack Obama" has sold 420,000 copies since its release on Nov. 20 _ an "unprecedented huge hit" for an English-language text, according to publisher Asahi Press.

Any book that sells more than 100,000 copies in Japan, which has a population of 128 million, is considered a success, and foreign-language publication sales rarely exceed 20,000, the publisher said.

Obama's book of speeches surged to No. 2 in Japan's main best-seller list this week, according to Hiroki Tomatsu, an official of Japan's largest book distributor Tohan Co. that publishes the ranking.

The 95-page book compiles Obama's speeches including the one at the 2004 convention, many from the party primaries, and his victory speech after he beat Hillary Rodham Clinton to secure the Democratic nomination. Each English-language transcript comes with a Japanese translation.

Although the simplicity of campaign speeches makes them an obvious choice as a language-learning tool, other American presidents have rarely been so feted.

"We don't publish every single president's speeches," Asahi Press official Yuzo Yamamoto said. "Would you buy the text of former President George W. Bush's speeches?"

Average internal medicine salaries (lowest on the list of specialties I looked at) were $167K. Starting was $154. Surgeons and stuff start really high - Atul Gawande got to set his own salary, and it was in the $250-300K ballpark (he was a bit coy IIRC) out of residency. Also, they do get paid as residents, just relatively poorly considering the hours worked and level of skill required.

Median Med school debt in 2005: $120K. If you start at $250K, you can pay that back like whoa, if you don't buy a house and a BMW for 5 years.

I mean, all the youngish doctors I know (classmates from high school and we have a neighbor who is an ER doc) seem to be doing just fine. I am not concerned about their finances.

OH SWEET TREMBLING MOSES PEOPLE, SAVE THINGS TO THE SYSTEM. USE THE DOCUMENT MANAGEMENT SOFTWARE WE HAVE IN PLACE. IT DOES ME NO EARTHLY FUCKING GOOD ON YOUR COMPUTER IF THE PARTNER YOU WROTE IT FOR NEEDS ME TO EDIT THE FUCKER DEAR GOD. NO DO NOT CALL HIM AND ASK HIM TO FORWARD ME WHAT HE JUST MARKED UP AND GAVE ME TO EDIT. HE IS AT LUNCH AND QUITE REASONABLY EXPECTING THIS WHEN HE GETS BACK.

I am not concerned about their finances.

Oh, but the whole reason to marry a doctor is so that you can be rich, not so your husband can take care of sick people.

(Yes, I know I'm assuming all doctors are men, but I'm sure we've all heard the stories about "Marry a doctor!")

One problem is that doctors, to have a reasonable amount of money coming in, book appointments in 15 minute blocks and most patients need much more time than that, which causes delays. Also doctors are not paid for all the time to do paperwork outside those office visits.

Honestly, that doesn't sound too different from the way things are here except that the doctors are billing insurance companies instead of a government agency.

[eta: In private practice, that is. I think most hospitals have internal systems for handling billing and paperwork.]

I mean, all the youngish doctors I know (classmates from high school and we have a neighbor who is an ER doc) seem to be doing just fine. I am not concerned about their finances.

Oh, of course! I am in no way concerned about the finances of the average US doctor.

Even at the nonprofit network of clinics I used to work at (mostly covered by medicaid and sliding-scale fees), the top few employees by salary are doctors, and the first one without other responsibilities (just listed as "physician" in the 990) made $162K in 2006.