Bunch of wanna blessed-bes. Nowadays every girl with a henna tattoo and a spice rack thinks she's a sister to the dark ones.

Willow ,'Bring On The Night'


Natter 63: Life after PuppyCam  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


meara - Jun 11, 2009 8:01:30 pm PDT #23879 of 30000

Well, I mean...as you're saying, as a "man in a woman's body"...you're still liking who you like. It's about who YOU are, not who you like.

(Though, even that has been known to change, sometimes, given that it's a big life change, and when you add testosterone, which is a HUGE hormone change....but....)


DavidS - Jun 11, 2009 8:05:21 pm PDT #23880 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I think for a lot of people, erika, it takes some work to understand that sexuality and gender identity are separate. But when you think of it as: this is who I'm attracted to, and this is how I feel in my body it's a little easier to get.

People that have gender dysphoria don't feel right with their biological package of sex organs. You may have issues with your body but you're fine with having girly bits.

At some point (I think) it's difficult to describe it all as a series of binary choices. It's not nearly as simple as Chastity was a lesbian and now wants to be a man. Both sexuality and gender identity can be kind of fluid and evolving anyway.


meara - Jun 11, 2009 8:13:01 pm PDT #23881 of 30000

Heh. And it's kinda hard for me to explain cause it all seems so normal to me--those are the people I date, for whom gender identity tends to be kind of a grey line anyway. :)

The speech I sorta ended up giving a friend when she asked about why the hell a girl she knew identified as a "queer femme" rather than as a "lesbian", and so on:

A lot of my friends are people who....well, they straddle a lot of gender lines. They're not really "she" but they're not really "he" either. Sure, they might've been born female, but now they use gender neutral names, avoid pronouns, may have had their breasts removed (or just strap them down a lot, or may just not have hardly any tits to start with). Some may have taken testosterone, or they may just look pretty slim and guyish to start with. They get mistaken for guys a heck of a lot. Mostly teenage guys. Some identify as trans. Some don't like to ID. Some date women. Some date other trans guys. Some date gay men. Some date men who identify as "queer". Most of them choose to identify as "queer". Me, I look like a girl, and no one thinks I'm a guy, but...these are my people. And this is why I don't, at the heart of it, identify as a "lesbian", but rather as "queer".


erikaj - Jun 11, 2009 8:18:25 pm PDT #23882 of 30000
Always Anti-fascist!

Yeah, I think everything is where it should be. It's just wired like a Fiat. That's probably true, Hec.(I over-simplified a bunch, but I hope it's clear that I'm not trying to drink the haterade or anything...whatever he needs to do to feel okay is probably fine with me.) It's just that, contrary to what the sitcoms show, I didn't have anyone to ask about this in my graduating class.


P.M. Marc - Jun 11, 2009 8:34:11 pm PDT #23883 of 30000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I think it's sometimes easier if you've hung out with trans men and women to have it make sense? I have a hard time explaining it, like meara does, but they just are who they are, and when you meet them/hang with them, it clicks. I know trans and otherwise non-cisgendered people who were born female who date women, some who date men, some who are fluid. I know trans and otherwise non-cisgendered people who were born men, and same thing. Some dated one gender before transition, and another after. We humans are complex!


DavidS - Jun 11, 2009 8:41:18 pm PDT #23884 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

ION, the baseball draft concluded but not without another gem of a baseball name: Dexter Bobo.

You can't make this shit up! (cf., Coco Crisp, Dusty Napoleon, Dante Love, Sequoyah Stonecipher and Damien Magnifico.)


beth b - Jun 11, 2009 9:51:31 pm PDT #23885 of 30000
oh joy! Oh Rapture ! I have a brain!

Glad you asked, erika. I don't have any problems accepting things like Chasity knowing he is Chav -- because coming to that conclusion - in the face of all the cultural issues is not easy. However, acceptance isn't the same as understanding, and any information helps


Jesse - Jun 12, 2009 2:55:07 am PDT #23886 of 30000
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

And I have used a ton of words to say: Transexuals...huh. I don't get it

There was a great piece on This American Life by a trans guy, that included stuff about transition, and passing, and etc., as well as his realization that he had gone from being a really cool tough butch girl to being kind of a lame guy. Which was funny. It should be on their website.


Theodosia - Jun 12, 2009 3:20:57 am PDT #23887 of 30000
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

TAL also had a heartbreaking piece about two child transgenders meeting each other for the first time and becoming BFFs.


flea - Jun 12, 2009 3:41:05 am PDT #23888 of 30000
information libertarian

This is the TAL with the interview with Griffin Hansbury, the trans guy. [link] I knew him in college. It's a pretty good show.