Am I supposed to be changing my clothes a lot? Is that the helpful thing to do?

Anya ,'Storyteller'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Beverly - May 10, 2010 10:57:24 am PDT #8623 of 30002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

Probably. I don't remember it being actually stated in so many words, but Joshua may have said it and my retention is poor. Of course God can stuff Jimmy back in the box, no prob.


§ ita § - May 10, 2010 10:57:51 am PDT #8624 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

the not-identified archangel

They identified him. It was Raphael ("You were wasted by a teenage mutant ninja angel?")

The implication being that Sam's soul is burnt up and the atoms scattered, along with everything that makes him Sam.

I don't see that implication. We've been told so little about souls in the Supernatural verse, that I was almost surprised that Crowley could just *have* Bobby's. I mean, where is it? If they kill Crowley, does Bobby just keep on existing fine? But can't go to Heaven when he dies?

My assumption about Sam is that he would be suppressed as long as Lucifer maintained possession. And that there is no known way to get an angel to evacuate their vessel, so it's a lost cause. But they've never told us what happens to any souls, just what happens to the person. And with Bobby doing apparently fine without his soul right now, it's hard for me to tell how those are related.

Also, the Buffyverse is confusing me.

eta: Yes, God reconstituted Cas, as well as teleported the boys.


Morgana - May 10, 2010 11:00:13 am PDT #8625 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

Also, the Buffyverse is confusing me.

The Buffyverse doesn't really follow strict laws of logic, so you're likely to give yourself a headache if you try to impose them.


Beverly - May 10, 2010 11:03:11 am PDT #8626 of 30002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

Crossroads demons don't collect on the bargain till the agreed on time period is up, and the person dies.

The people in Crossroads lived the ten years of their bargains just fine, souls in place, but with a lien. Dean lived for a year. The soul doesn't go anywhere until the deal is up, and the person dies.


§ ita § - May 10, 2010 11:08:45 am PDT #8627 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

The soul doesn't go anywhere until the deal is up

But Crowley has the soul now. That's why I'm confused.

Crowley: I fully intend to give it back.
Dean: Well then give it back!
Crowley: I will.
Dean: Now!

So what does that actually mean about/for Bobby?

I'm beginning to think the Buffyverse might make more sense than this.


P.M. Marc - May 10, 2010 11:14:06 am PDT #8628 of 30002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

The implication in S3 was that the demon holding the contract could make it null and void (and in S2, we see that they could do that without undoing the granted desires). So Crowley could release the lien on the soul. My impression is that Crowley has soul rights via contract, not the physical possession, and that the writing was a little fuzzy there.


Cass - May 10, 2010 11:14:27 am PDT #8629 of 30002
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I think he has a lien on the soul. Like buying a car. Technically it's the banks until you pay it off, but you can drive it.


Cass - May 10, 2010 11:15:15 am PDT #8630 of 30002
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

And Plei has my brain. Again.


Beverly - May 10, 2010 11:15:58 am PDT #8631 of 30002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

I assume that if the demon who holds the deed to the crossroads deal dies, the deal is broken, ownership of the soul reverts to the person who made the bargain. Sam kept trying to find and kill the demon who held Dean's contract. If a higher-level demon offs the one who holds the contract, or simply decides to take over his or her corner, then the deal stands, but with the more powerful demon as lienholder.

triplecross post!


§ ita § - May 10, 2010 11:17:14 am PDT #8632 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I assume that if the demon who holds the deed to the crossroads deal dies, the deal is broken, ownership of the soul reverts to the person who made the bargain.

Then Crowley isn't protected against death by holding the deed.