Come now. We know that Dean has been set up to be an amalgam of Michael the archangel fighting Lucifer, Jesus in all his martyrdom, and Jim Morrison with his sexual magnetism wrapped in leather. There's nothing he won't be able to do, after sufficient angsting, manpain and crystalline teardrops.

And you like Sam enough to watch through this?

I get that you want to watch the Sam show but am kinda awed that you watch the one actually on tv given how strongly you feel. I mean, to each their own but, wow, you do not seem to like this show about two brothers.

To clarify - I just honestly wonder why you watch. You seem to dislike the show. I get that it's hard to break up with a show you used to love but I think sometimes you should break up with the show causing you more stress than enjoyment.

We know that Dean has been set up to be an amalgam of Michael the archangel fighting Lucifer, Jesus in all his martyrdom, and Jim Morrison with his sexual magnetism wrapped in leather.

I wasn't making that up out of whole cloth... the references to Michael have been appearing at least since Dean's first visit to Heaven's waiting room with Zachariah as the camera flashed back and forth between him and the paintings on the wall. Actually, it might have started back in Houses of the Holy; someone with a better memory would know. And the Jesus references started after the Dark Side of the Moon episode when people started mapping out comparisons to biblical stories and the episode (he was denied three times, etc.). As for the martyrdom, Dean's been martyring himself pretty much the length of the entire show. First it was for Sam, and now it may be for all of mankind. It's the particular brand of hero he is. As for the Jim Morrison/leather/magnetism thing? Just look at him! It's Jensen Ackles!

I mean, to each their own but, wow, you do not seem to like this show about two brothers.

You're wrong. I was originally pulled into the show about the two brothers rebuilding their bond and working their way back to one another. The creepy supernatural stuff and the cool muscle car was just icing on the cake. The small glimpses we've seen of that underlying familial surety we've seen over the past few episodes have made me very happy.

I get that you want to watch the Sam show

Again, no. I want to watch the Sam and Dean show. Or the Dean and Sam show. The Winchester Show, at any rate. There are only two main characters, and one of them seems to serve only to move the story arc of the other. It's discouraging. I wish the writers would have been more even-handed in the character development. By making it lopsided they set the whole dynamic off balance.

but am kinda awed that you watch the one actually on tv

There are times when I read way too much fanfic looking for ways to make things in my imagination align.

You seem to dislike the show.

No. I do get extremely discouraged, much, I imagine, as do the people who get upset by the misogyny or racefail they write about.

Also it's possible to watch a show when you don't love every single element about it. I watched Angel even when I didn't like Connor or new!Cordy. I watched Buffy even with the Trio villains, or Dawn, or the Potentials. I even eventually watched the last seasons of The X-Files, with what's-his-name and what's-her-name instead of Mulder and Scully.

I think sometimes you should break up with the show causing you more stress than enjoyment.

Real life causes me stress. My nephrologist telling me that "it's the nature of kidney disease to progress" as he's informing me that I'm another step closer to dialysis, that causes stress. The fact that this past Sunday in under 10 hours my blood glucose dropped so severely so quickly that I actually went into convulsions twice (that was a new experience; I've been diabetic 24 years and I never even knew that was possible) -- that causes stress. I'm headed for more labwork tomorrow and on to more specialists next week. (continued...)

( continues...) TV is just a mild distraction.

It really feels like you're saying you want me to bow out of this thread.

I just checked the Etiquette page, and the first rule states that "The Buffistas are an inclusive, welcoming, and flame-free community. Play nice, and you've found a home away from home. If you make personal attacks or offensive posts, or try to start a fight, you will be shunned." I don't believe I've done any of those things in this thread. I certainly didn't intend to do so. If the other members take a consensus and want me to leave then I will, of course.

I can't speak for anyone but me but I would miss our watch and post as it's regularly you and me. I like reading everyone who posts here in this thread as I don't venture far from it and feel closest to the posters in this thread ( past and present).

Also, sending health ma to help with everything going on.

Somebody has to take up my slack for W&P, as I'm generally inarticulate till a couple days after airing, when I've had some time to think, and reflect my views off people whose perspective I trust--several of whom are here. Here's a safe place, generally free of the crazee.*

*not, of course, referring to my own brand of hyperattention to nitpicky detail. THAT's not crazy. Nooo, not at all.

Your last post about the show had so much vitriol, Morgana, that I couldn't imagine you were still enjoying the show. It has been the Dean-must-end-the-apocalypse show since On The Head Of A Pin, so that's hardly news.

But what do I know? I love Sam's season 5 arc and where he is now, and where the brothers are now.

So I don't really know how to respond to your posts.

I have to admit I agree with ita and Cass, Morgana. I feel like the tone of every post is critical to the point of contemptuousness, and to be selfish, it harshes my squee when I'm enjoying almost every minute.

So I'm not really sure what to say to you about the show, either. I do feel like we're watching completely different programs.

I agree that I've interpreted dissatisfaction with the show, but that doesn't negate the person from posting in a thread. We've never told any people who were dissatisfied with the race or gender issues of the show to modify their posts not to bring up those points repeatedly. Because the problems are there repeatedly and it is a valid view point. Morgana has the same right to voice her opinion about the character path of Sam and his use in the show.

I feel bad about the in fighting here when there aren't many places to share ideas about the show without it getting fan crazy. Selfishly I like access to all the view points which are thought out and backed with valid points. Even if the views are different than my own.

This is all just very sad making.

eta: FTR, I equally support Cass, ita, Bev, and Amy also.

No asked Morgana to leave. But I think it's valid to ask why someone is watching when she doesn't seem to enjoy the show at all. I don't think anyone here is fighting -- we asked her to explain what it is she enjoys about the show.

In interrupt all serious conversation to say...

It is SHOW day.

That is all.

I was reacting to Morgana saying:

It really feels like you're saying you want me to bow out of this thread.

and

If the other members take a consensus and want me to leave then I will, of course.

and that being met with kind of a cold shoulder (which I take full responsibility for assuming too much and may be a mistake on my part)

I'm going to step aside from this now because I feel like I spoke up on what I needed to speak about and anything further will be me just trying to soothe my anxiety with getting everyone to get along.