Theresa, the funniest thing is that the creator of SoA has said the basic story is based on Hamlet, which maps really well.

I think they all have some humanity in them, and watching when and where it's revealed is fascinating.

Um, on topic. I was listening to the soundtrack of Oliver! this morning (shut up) and it occurred to me that Sam could be Oliver and Dean could the Artful Dodger. I think Fagin is John, Bill Sikes is Azazel (making Nancy Ruby, sort of).

Discuss. Even if it's just to make fun of me.

Hamlet, which maps really well.

It does!

Sam as Oliver makes me picture JP holding up a bowl and asking very politely if he can have some more. Cutiehead.

I sort of have to have Colin Ford!Sam to make it work for me, but I'll take it.

I would have thought this too, but then someone in linking to one of the videos showed me Sam who lost his shoe. The look on his face as Dean is walking away from him is very Oliver.

But any excuse to have Colin Ford!Sam is okay with me too. We should have a list of people that we want on more teevee.

I wasn't able to finish watching SOA S1 for much the same reason that I never got through the first ep of Deadwood. I want to watch Deadwood so badly, but I just feel bludgeoned by the language to the point I can't hear the other dialog or care about any of the characters. SoA was just so violent, and if I started feeling sympathetic to a character, he or she would do something irredeemable and lose me. It was actually StY who gave me a synopsis of the second half of the season, and cut through a lot of the issues I had to the humanity and the story.

I started watching faithfully in S2, and was completely drawn inn. And Shakespearean is definitely a term for the last scene of the season finale. It might even qualify as biblical.

There's not a better cast on any show, as far as I'm concerned. It's relatively huge, and every actor is deeply invested, all of them are layered and their relationships with and to each other read as real, messy, volatile, tender, and tough as nails. Next to SPN, SoA may be my favorite show. Not...when I need a suave, pretty thief, whether be-hatted or blonde ponytailed or an electronics geek. But for drama? Oh yeah.

The language in Deadwood becomes a kind of music, or maybe poetry, by the time you get to the second ep, or maybe the third. It's actually weirdly lyrical.

I'm going to try Deadwood again and see if I can avoid laughing at the language and paying attention to the story. I now have the added incentive after recently becoming hooked on Justified. Omg Nom nom.

I am convinced more than ever that the boys must at least for whatever reason be allowed to do a cowboy episode.

Bev when you were talking about behatted, were you talking White Collar or Justified? I'm assuming since you said theif that it's WC. If you haven't already you need to catch an ep of the latter.

I think one of the reasons (beyond the violence) that SoA bothered me was because I'm so entrenched in SPN where the bad guys are my good guys. Mail fraud, hustling, homicide, drunk and disorderly are all things that the boys, John, and Bobby do. But I want to wrap them in blankets and kick whoever is mean to them. I wonder if John would have run guns or if he had a line he wouldn't cross so that he could separate himself and the boys from ordinary bad guys like SoA at least in his mind.

I was attempting to be vague and inclusive: White Collar, Leverage, Justified, oh hell, Burn Notice too.

I can't cross the streams: SPN and SoA are in separate universes for me, and never the twain shall meet.

...though somebody is likely writing Dean/Jax even as we speak.

But I suppose going into S1 SoA, I had a "good outlaw" sensibility from John, Bobby, Caleb, Jefferson, Jim, and that ilk of hunter. So the utter ferocity with which SAMCRO obliterates their opponents--not even necessarily enemies, just anyone who's an obstacle to their plans--was shocking and offputting. I do think S2 has gotten into character meat. Gotten past the shock of how the club does business, given them a despicable actual enemy, one that we abhor as well, putting them and the viewer on the same side of the fight.

Some see that as a "softening" of the hard core. I don't. I think viewers have become habituated to their mode of business to the point it isn't shock-a-minute. And I think viewers have had a chance to come to know, and actually care about, the secondary and tertiary characters--at least I have. I suppose I should go back and actually watch those S1 eps, now.

Colin does conventions. I'd love to see him at one. But he is, as kat describes him, pathologically sociable. I'm not sure how he feels about the idea of a mass of fans caring, but I've never seen him look even slightly irritated at being approached on his own time. Boy just loves to talk to people.

I get that feeling about JP, too, if not JA (although I think he's gotten much more comfortable). I'm just always cringing a little bit in case someone asks them something really weird.