Add me to the list of those who never would have thought that Dean didn't have a soul.

Also, the Horsemen seem very demon-like in most respects to me, and as we all know one of the first tenets to keep in mind when dealing with demonkind is: Demons Lie. Why assume that Horsemen always tell the truth?

I checked. Still harrowing the second time round.

And no, no reason for me to think he doesn't have a soul. He's damaged profoundly, but not supernaturally so.

The funny bits are still funny, the sad bits still sad, and the gross bits--dunno. Fast forwarded.

Yeah, I never thought that he didn't have a soul . . he's dead inside - that's a different thing.

The writer of the fic linked above seems to totally share my mind. Not the Michael/Dean interaction but ...

I've been thinking (probably more than it deserves) about Ana's "All the pain, twice the self-righteousness". (And: quoting from memory.)

And there is a way to reconcile it with getting Dean to torture Alister. The point of that was not that Dean was the only one with the skills (though I'm sure Castiel sincerely believed that.) And it was not just Uriel's little plan for Alister to kill Dean, though I'm sure that was sincere too. What it did to Dean was the point; someone higher up that both Uriel and Castiel intended to make sure Dean stayed broken, had his face rubbed in his time in hell now that he was out. So hell really did learn its torture techniques from heaven. Not canon, but not inconsistent with canon.

Also, (and here again the fic deals with something I've though before) the timing on Dean's rescue is suspicious. No one notices when he goes under that he has the bloodline hell needs to unleash apocalypse. Especially no one notices when unleashing the apocalypse is something heaven and hell agree on. They were sick of haggling over a few souls at a time during the pregame, and wanted to start the big game (which they now seem to have done). That is how they just notice how well Dean fit into prophecy only after he broke and rescued him too late. No accident, Dean's breaking was part of the plan.

And maybe the writers won't go that direction. But it would not be at all inconsistent with the direction they seem to be going.

Yeah, I didn't think he was soulless - I mean wouldn't he be a zombie, but my question about the status of his soul was more, what state is his soul in?

It doesn't sound good to me.

I'm pretty sure (in the Supernatural universe) that you can't go walking around without your soul.

Also Famine eating souls and demons? Totally consistent. After all in Supverse, demons are souls that have been tormented until they broke, then put back together wrong. To a soul eater that might taste good, like a Gorgonzola.

House of Wax is on. I keep trying to change the channel...hasn't happened yet. Someone save me.

What channel?

MTV.

Yes, I'm still watching.