Morgana, I have some of the same issues with Sam's characterization--in fact with both brothers' characterizations. I'm not prepared to drag out the scales or the yardstick, but I think all too often, as is common in screenwriting, character has been sacrificed for gimmick. SPN is not the only show to suffer from the syndrome, Buffy did at times, so did Angel, and so have other shows before and since. Sometimes it's at the behest of the network who want some audience-grabbing stunt, sometimes it's a writer with a sudden rabbit hunt. I think the writers sometimes lose sight of who their characters are, and that's regrettable. But it's also endemic to tv, and often to film as well. I think we as viewers have to be the ones to hold characters we connect with together for ourselves, and hope things get better. Failing that, remember fondly the characters as they made those connections.

It's far from ideal, but sometimes it's all we have.

Beverly, I think you hit the nail right on the head. Same thing happened with Stargate SG-1 after three years. Character development and storylines shifted, and after a few more years, writing was lazy and even the actors seemed disengaged.

Kinda goes with the territory, I suppose.

Anyway, here is a new Space promo for next week's ep. I CAN'T WAIT!!

Morgana, I have some of the same issues with Sam's characterization--in fact with both brothers' characterizations. I'm not prepared to drag out the scales or the yardstick

Oh God yes, I never intended to imply that Dean's characterization isn't lacking as well. It's just that I believe Sam's is more grieviously wanting. But yes, Dean's had major holes in his storyline as well. For instance, the bleeding eyes in "Bloody Mary" that were never explained. And I think I'd like just a tiny little explanation of why Dean, who rebels against just about everything else, followed everything his father dictated like it was holy writ. I accept that he did, I just want to know why. Other than "it's called being a good son."

Or more recently, I think there should have been more psychological fallout from his being forced into acting as a torturer again. Particularly since he was forced into it by the so-called "good guys." Also it would have been interesting if there would have been fallout from his interaction with Alistair, since we've been led to believe Alistair was his chief tormentor in hell, particularly since he was unable to break Alistair and therefore Alistair more or less "won" over him. (And by the by, does Dean even know that Sam was the one who vanquished Alistair, not Castiel?)

Also, I would have liked to have seen Dean telling Sam that he was the one who broke the first seal rather than having it be a throwaway line. It's an important dramatic point, it bookends Sam's predicament, and JA could have knocked it out of the ballpark.

I know a lot of fans are unhappy with the directions the show has taken, but I think some things don't get considered. Or, I should say, *I* try to consider them.

a) The constraints of writing episodic TV don't leave as much room for some aspects of character development as fans might want.

b) See a; it's not a novel, and some broader, shorter strokes have to stand for what might be explored more in depth in another format. Example: I thought the episode where we see Sam post-Dean's death was exactly enough to give me an idea of what he went through. More episodes of him drunk, furious, and frustrated wouldn't have gone anywhere, I don't think.

c) See b; sometimes I think fic, much as I love it, leads to dissatisfaction. Fic writers *can* take time to explore issues the writers can't.

d) I think Kripke has enjoyed providing fan service a little too much, but I still think *I* can see the Sam and Dean we started with; I just think they've evolved. And that's realistic to me -- people change based on circumstances, and Dean and Sam both certainly have. But I don't feel like Kripke and co. aren't being faithful to the core people Sam and Dean are.

Just, you know, my take on it.

Amy, obviously it's a YMMV kind of thing. I'm glad for you that you still are happy with the state of the show. I still find moments within the show, and it's still appointment television, but the disappointment factor is growing.

Example: I thought the episode where we see Sam post-Dean's death was exactly enough to give me an idea of what he went through. More episodes of him drunk, furious, and frustrated wouldn't have gone anywhere, I don't think.

There was a big problem with how it was presented. We saw Dean's reaction to Sam's death immediately, and it was like a punch to the gut. It was visceral and painful and shocking when he made his crossroads deal, but we understood why in his pain he did it. Dean died in 3.16, but we didn't get to see the episode with Sam's flashback to him being "drunk, furious and frustrated" until 4.09. And when Sam was drunk and in agony and seduced by Ruby, part of fandom said "Oh God he must be in so much pain!" but the bulk of it started howling. Half of it started howling that he was sleeping with a demon, and the other half started howling that he was fucking a corpse. And they all seemed to overlook the emotional agony Sam was feeling about his brother. Combined with everything he did offscreen and never explained and how unlikeable he's been made, I don't know how they'll be able to redeem him.

My personal perspective? (Why thank you for asking. I had entered this in someone else's LJ, so here it is again:) I think a case can be made that Sam was not in his right mind at the point where Ruby slithered in and influenced him and got him hooked on demon blood by promising him greater strength and revenge against Lilith, and hadn't been for a long time. Look, Dean had made his crossroads deal and Sam slowly started his slide. He started a year of incredible stress trying to research everything he could and search out every occult lead he could that might save Dean. Then they ran into the Mystery Spot. And Sam got to watch Dean die in front of him in incredibly grotesque ways over 100 times. He finally broke the cycle, only to have Dean get shot by a mugger outside the motel room. He spent at least the next 3 months alone, OCD tendencies in full display, hunting the Trickster, before he had to kill something that looked like Bobby to bring Dean back. Only to begin the countdown to the crossroads deal again. Then he watched Dean being torn apart by the hellhounds. After that he spent another 4 months alone, trying to make deals and figure out how to get Dean back. (And we've seen the Winchesters do not deal well with being alone.) After all he had lost by that point, and in such a short period of time (Jess, John, Dean) why wouldn't he be unbalanced?

Which is also something I wish to hell Sam or the writers would bring up sometime when Dean keeps repeating that Sam chose a demon over his brother. As far as I can tell, he didn't. That's Dean's point of view. But from Sam's point of view, he was trying to increase his ability to "pull" demons, or whatever you'd call it -- to get as strong as possible before the Lilith showdown and Ruby's blood was a means to an end. Not to mention that he was lonely, and she had proven to be an ally in the past. But we need to hear that from Sam.

IO9 rates Castiel very highly as sexy angels go.

I understand why they like Metatron so much, but he has no sexy parts. It's a bit of a downer. Castiel might not know what to do with his (yet), but at least we can assume he has them.

Well, he has Jimmy's! And Dean *did* try to get him to use them ...

Hey, there were several hours not shown after the stripper had her freak-out that night. Dean may have done more than try...

I just saw an interview with Adrianne Palicki, and apparently she's dating Alan Tudyk. Did we know this?

They were at some function together while V was still on the air, and I've heard here and there they were dating. They're cute together.