I am backing out of a weird conversation with someone who's really interrogating the text differently from me. I understand the POV that Sam isn't down with the whole lifestyle (although I think he's making peace with it as a responsibility), but this season, Dean has been excited by it. So why would they quit because their grandfather thinks it's a crap job?

He also says they have a net negative impact on the world's safety, so they should stop hunting. Haven't we been told that destiny would accept substitutions? That it could have been Jake instead of Sam (for at least some shenanigans--not sure how far that would go), and John instead of Dean cracking the first seal?

Destiny didn't say they'd save the world. It only said the world would need saving.

I kind of want to know why he's been watching this long if he sees them as a bad thing from even before S4--and in a way that means they should stop, not in the sense of a bad thing you can't stop poking at.

If ... they stop hunting, there is no show. And how on earth are they having a net negative impact when, just for one example, they stopped Lucifer from destroying the world?

Apparently Lucifer was their fault, and if they'd never been born (or had stayed dead at any earlier juncture), he'd have stayed in Hell.

I don't feel the show is stretching the character's plausible motivation by keeping them hunting. If they'd just stopped at most times before this season, they'd have been handing the world over to the bad guys. Who does that, and can we call them heroes?

if they'd never been born (or had stayed dead at any earlier juncture), he'd have stayed in Hell

Bullshit. That's why heaven/destiny created loopholes like Adam. Dean was supposed to be Michael's vessel, and thought he could get out of it, but wait -- destiny provided a sub!

This also gets into really heavy analysis of free will and determinism and blah blah, and honestly? I just love my Winchesters, and they're heroes, and fuck you, buddy.

I'm surly this morning, I guess.

Besides, Dean actually likes hunting. Partially he believes he doesn't deserve more, but he also believes at the same time that he's fucking good at this shit, and also it's fun.

I think Sam has less glee, but he also gains satisfaction from the job well done, and sees it as a positive responsibility in a way that exceeds my attitude to my job.

Humans. Complex and contain multitudes.

The Winchesters have also stopped two Apocalypses (Apocalypsi?) that they had little to no part in enabling: Mother-Of-All going to Defcon One/turning the whole human race into her monstrous offspring, and the Leviathans coming back from Purgatory and eating everyone. If they'd both gone into the Cage Crowley probably would have still triggered the former and Cas the latter.

I mostly love the fact that Sam is SUCH A FUCKING WINCHESTER, and Dean is SUCH A FUCKING CAMPBELL.

I see this as the upcoming storyline unfolding right before our eyes.

I see this as the upcoming storyline unfolding right before our eyes.

I love this idea.

If they'd both gone into the Cage Crowley probably would have still triggered the former and Cas the latter.

Exactly!

I love this idea.

Same here.

In a lot of ways, I think the Men of Letters 'legacy' idea is just another way to show that Sam and dean were screwed over, destiny-wise, even before they were born.

In a lot of ways, I think the Men of Letters 'legacy' idea is just another way to show that Sam and dean were screwed over, destiny-wise, even before they were born.

The biggest thing it does for me is make the arranged relationship sound less like Heaven forced together two kids who hated each other, less like it was random, and more than a bit like breeding the best monster killers EVER.

And since that's my favourite head canon (though John is in some ways better than they are--self taught, late starter, and apparently more analytical (ohhhh) than either of the boys) I am all about literal :Legacy, inelegant as it is.