I think that's entirely up in the air, Amy--I can't think of anything that would determine Letters first, hunters first, or them springing up separately and meeting, or having been one group that split. And I can't really decide between those scenarios in terms of implications for the story and the universe.

I'm gonna roll that around a bit.

So...John refers to "family of mechanics" and "the old man" in The Song Remains The Same, ergo the writers are careless and talentless and don't care about their franchise.

Now, I think that every show should have a bible, and every deviation from the bible should be deliberate, you know, sometimes they do just say "fuck it--I want it this way--this is more important". And sometimes they don't have any idea, and aren't going to do the legwork to make sure. Thing is, we have no idea which yet. And when we do know which, what difference does it make?

You can wank around either one of them--I don't understand why it's such a deal.

I wonder where the balance between "Dad had his issues, okay, but he was always there for us." and "He's always missing, and he's always fine."/"Deadbeat dad" is. However, I will clutch greedily onto the first when I'm reading the next Abusive Drunken Abandoning Father Made Me A Self-Hating Gay story. Which apparently is preferable to stopping reading, but whatevs.

well, for me, I don't mind if writers decide to change the story after several years. This is exactly what happened with Fringe it seems to me. I am happy to find reasons for the benefit of the doubt.

However, I don't want to be committed to a series where the creators are in the "Lost" or (worst yet) "Battlestar Galactica" camp. I somehow felt okay with how "Lost" ended up despite the other than ideal developments during the series run. BSG has left me embittered.

What I want is a general idea that they have a plan and a general end point in mind, even if we go off on side trips and funny eps, and stuff. I read an interview with the showrunner where he was asked (after this ep was seen by the interviewer) if there was going to be an ep about John's mother (spoiler text for answer though there isn't much information. his response was: oh, we haven't thought about it. Maybe it will occur to us as we plot out next season.

And my response is: WTF?

I enjoy the series, but my expectations about plot and each season's plot being related to canon in any tight way have been dashed.

If Grandma Winchester doesn't affect the season's plot, why do they need to know if they're writing her in a long time beforehand?

I don't know if any shows are going to live up to your expectations in the writers' room.

well, if they are putting together a larger mythology that involved John's father (and by mention his grandfather and great-grandfather), I would have thought there might be some thought to his mother in there.

I don't think that everything needs to be completely thought out, but this show is going to be retconned all over the place.

The easy explanation would be that John's mother's father, or brother, was a mechanic. Or that was a shorthand he used because he didn't want to talk about his dad walking out on them.

I mean, is it a little lazy? Sure. Any references to his family should have been checked, at least so they could make sure it all lines up. But in this case it doesn't bug me.

Also, I liked the episode a lot better than a throwaway line from just one scene one time.

I wonder where the balance between "Dad had his issues, okay, but he was always there for us." and "He's always missing, and he's always fine."/"Deadbeat dad" is.

It's always been clear for me personally, and maybe that has to do with being a parent? I don't know.

But while stuff like the Christmas episode makes it clear John didn't make a huge effort for holidays, and didn't always show up on time, and wasn't real concerned with what the boys wanted as much as what he wanted for them, he loved them.

Yes, he left them in places he thought would be safe (enough) but he then added his own precautions. He made sure they were schooled (up to the point where every parent doesn't have a choice anymore). He instilled values in them, and we all know you can't exactly judge whose values are right or wrong. His were family loyalty, a sense of civic duty in an are not many others even knew existed, hard work, and a kind of stoicism.

So, yes, more like soldiers than children, but there are folks out there doing that for less honorable reasons, too.

Maybe John had a stepdad who was a mechanic.

So, they plan out a canon where his mother plays no important part, they get asked that question, they answer it like your quote.

If the issue is "why shouldn't his mother have an important part?" I get it. Otherwise, what's the problem? I don't see what that means other than "we didn't think to put her in the story--maybe later".

I'd be surprised if Mary was a hunter in the pilot, so I'm not going to take away *any* writer's ability to retcon. "Things they hadn't thought about before" might also be called "two out of the next five episodes". On most shows. And even if you're JMS, you plot shit out avec OCD, and then people leave, so what was the point again?

I am now reading about fan petitions for a third supporting character. My tumblr is about to get really naked. Dig this:

To be a part of the campaign and show your support of Castiel and other supporting characters, simply write in big, bold letters on a piece of paper “Feathers for Castiel” and put it in an envelope. Also put a feather (or many) in the envelope, white if possible but any colour if you can’t find white.

I..just...I didn't sign on for a series written by random tumblr holders. I am so old-fashioned in this regard.

Saving series is one thing (and even then...). Plotting them with this level of expectation is another.

he loved them

Ding! Nothing he did was because he was hateful, or dispassionate, or pointedly neglectful of their wellbeing--he just mis(fucking)calculated some shit, sometimes by bigger distances than others. But he loved them, and thought he was protecting them, as well as bringing them up to protect others.

And embark on a lifelong quest for vengeance, but if your parents can't have fun, why have kids????

Plotting them with this level of expectation is another.

Nobody is going to do reams of work that might never get used. It's also counterintuitive to spend too much on details like that while you're breaking a story. The plot and the current POV characters are way more important.

And since, for instance, Mary was killed in the pilot, and the boys were raised by John, there wouldn't be a whole lot of need to create a backstory for her parents from the get-go.

And that's what makes it fun as you proceed. You go back to see where you left a door open, and what might happen if you walk through it.