By which I mean to say that I see a HUGE difference between incorporating a lifetime of leadership, parenthood, and hero-worship into your character, and living a life, meeting a dude, and incorporating what characteristics you glean into your own already-formed personality (blank as it may seem to be).

Or, you know, what ita ! said.

To be fair, I think people are harshing on Garth a bit. He obviously knew Bobby, he'd worked with him in the past, we don't know how extensively, it may have been more than a few times, maybe not, but it was definitely enough that he reconized Bobby's speech patterns. Enough times to know about the multiple phones and the role that Bobby played in the community. And somehow he came into possession of at least some of Bobby's invaluable books. Yes, the Winchesters will always and forever be Bobby's boys, but that does not mean that Bobby didn't have other people in his life (Rufus, for example) who were also important to him.

People harshing on Garth may be a bit unfair, but so far in this thread the harshing seems warranted and taken with a grain of salt.

I dig the "he was a bit creepy and needed a bit of a smackdown from Dean" and I dig Dean getting schooled on not owning Bobby's memory (and I love the look of respect/acknowledgment he gives Garth at that point).

But, yeah, there's filling a role (the phones/backup/knowledge-base) and then there's, as has been said, aping him. Which is insulting to Bobby as well as those surviving him.

But my takeaway from the ep was good vibes for Garth, and I loved that he got BALLS right in the end.

Garth is repeatedly portrayed as a guy who doesn't get the subtleties of...interaction. And not in the way Dean fails (or used to fail--it's been hammered out of him along with his sense of fun...much rarer a deal), for me, just fail fail.

I have a chronic impatience with those behaviours--in fiction and in real life. So far in this thread it's basically me harshing on him--everyone else has been pretty pleased with him and how he's written.

There's always been something about the simpleton-sees-through-all-isn't-simple-at-all trope that bothers me, and although Sam has had a lot of space during the past year to process his feelings on a whole lot, Dean's probably emotionally at a standstill for luxurious things like closure. Plus, he started out with a hell of a handicap--he's not Mr. Letting Go at the best of times.

There's no way Garth knows the whole deal of what's been up with him, and possibly also not the depth of the Singer-Winchester connection--however important Bobby clearly was to the community, he was an ersatz (ugh, maybe that shorts John too much) parental figure for Dean who needed as much parenting as he could get, and it was a mutual thing, given Bobby's death episode.

I felt like the narrative was telling Dean to hush up and get over it, and I say--fuck it and wallow, Dean. Apart from everything else, Garth is actually being ridiculous as well as fulfilling an important role in the community.

And if I were in the story, I'd be yelling at Garth telling him that he can be the phone bank and knowledge dispenser, but he has a grip he needs to get too.

Unrelatedly, Supernatural fandom--we don't have a cute name, do we? Like X-Philes, or anything? Why not? I feel we deserve it--something nice, I mean.

All the good names involving "Super" are taken by the Superman, Superboy, Supergirl and Superdog fans?

So far in this thread it's basically me harshing on him--everyone else has been pretty pleased with him and how he's written.

Oh, I haven't loved him. Just for different reasons. I thought I could explain him somewhat, but he still bugs me as anything more than a hint of flavor. Like too much salt.

Except I like salt more.

I do think the hand puppet was WAY creepier than any of the Bobbyisms he picked up.

I know we were talking about the themes of the Civil War and brother against brother in this last episode, but I was reading a meta on lj and spicy comments about it, and someone had this to say:

The heart of this story, I think, is that it brought Dean around to being ready to talk to Sam. He begins the episode angry and defensive. Sam has questions about Benny. I don't know that they're especially helpful questions, but Dean hasn't been giving him a lot to work with so I can hardly blame him for asking them. But Dean doesn't want to answer any damn questions and basically tells Sam he should just shut up and deal with Dean's vampire friend.

The scope of the story - the discussion of Bobby's loss, and of how hurtful it can be to see a loved one's place taken by someone else (exemplified by Garth), and the grief and misery of these people who have murdered lovers and friends and colleagues over trifles gives Dean context. Dean feels about Amelia and Sam about Benny what they both felt (although the emphasis is on Dean) when they saw Garth 'be' Bobby - something vital has been replaced with something inferior, and how dare he? But as Garth points out: somebody has to do the job, even if the job is 'confidant in time of need'. And Dean's own outburst, whether he remembers every word or not, is a reminder of how dangerous it is to nurse resentments you don't understand. Just talking about it could clear the air.

So as you say, he comes to Sam at the end ready to agree to almost anything if it fixes things. Garth reminded him that they're all they have, now. The trouble is, Dean had all his honest conversations in this episode with Garth. All Sam knows is he got yelled at and shot at for things that are more complicated than Dean knows. So they switch places, and Sam tells Dean to shut up.

What I find interesting, with regard to Dean's possession, is the way it contrasts with Sam's flashbacks throughout the episode. A lot of what Dean says is either unfair or so far behind them that it shouldn't matter - but the emotional logic of it is clear. It's misery that needs to spill out. The episode brings Sam to the same place, but in flashback - he really wants to talk about Dean. And yet that, we don't see. Even in flashback, that would be a kind of floodgate opening. But it's not there. Sam's misery is still being crushed down.

I read that and was immediately ashamed, because I thought - of course, and all my literature professors who loved to tear apart everything looking for symbolism and metaphor would have had my head for missing that (although in my defense I think the mental image of Garth chewing his cud with his mouth open threw me off my game). Anyway, perhaps it provides some justification for the overuse of Garth and all his "Bobbyisms" throughout the episode.

Also don't know why I didn't realize that Dean won't remember all the accusations he yelled at Sam, since none of the other possessed people remembered precisely what had happened to them.

Wow. I feel stupid, too. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for linking that.