I have a John fic in my head, where he goes to visit Adam a couple times a year, and the guilt and the pleasure of this totally *normal* kid are almost unbearable. To him, and to me, which is why I haven't written it.

OMG, that just reminded me of the "See, obviously if John hadn't handed Dean the shotgun in Something Wicked he'd have been killed like Adam before Jump The Shark."

Which is totally tangential, and probably just my brain's attempt at self defense. Because frustration at false dichotomies is much happier than pain at Winchester angst.

But I did get that argument handed to me last week.

I'm not following you. Who'd have been killed like Adam, Dean?

I just read your tag and I'm even more confused.

Yes. It was delivered in the context of a larger point, but the idea was either that John raised his kids like he did, or...

I mean, either Dean got raised like Dean, or he died like Adam. I'm not sure if it's that if he's not raised like he was he has to be raised like Adam, or if it's that if he's raised even one iota off the way it was written that he dies like Adam anyway, but it's a whacking false dichotomy, because there are plenty of plausible constructs that don't turn out that way.

The person never returned to the discussion. I'm sure it's because I wall-of-texted them, or otherwise soured them.

Oh, I get it.

People being wrong on the internet! Who would've thunk?

But wasn't it supposed to stop? Isn't that what all the discussing is for?

Oh, honey. It never stops. That's why I let you venture into the mouth of the beast stay here.

I'm remembering one of those "Dean meets Jess" fics where Jess serves him salmon, and it's not only the first time he's had it, he's kinda confused by it, and it made me feel defensive. It's just a kind of fish. It's not a weird kind of fish, is it? I mean, it's prettily coloured, but it's not weird in form or flavour. Of course, there was the moment when Sam remembered when Jess had first served him salmon, and then Jess wondering what was up with these boys and the salmon ignorance...

I call BS on this, because my childhood memories from the semi-rural South involve salmon from a can being used to make croquettes, and I can easily see John giving the kids a can of that and a can of some Green Giant vegetable and calling it a meal. The stuff's about as exotic as tuna, though I suppose I could see both Dean and Sam being surprised upon first encountering them in sushi form.

I'll just have to yell louder, then. And cite harder.

I do admit, one of the angles I like the outsider POV for is to show how different the boys are, but the principle that they grew up eating out of just one can and only motel rooms with no kitchens...no. I don't honestly think it was that bad. Periods with houses, John in the kitchen (he's canonically bad with...is it gadgets in general, or just kitchen gadgets?), maybe a little, Dean in the kitchen more, and takeout and delivery.

Dean doesn't have to be a gourmet chef (though some of that is cute), but he can keep a growing pair of kids and a hungry hunter fed and watered just fine.

Basically, I don't think he learnt to scramble eggs in his year with the Braedens.

I can see John slapping some frozen hamburger patties in a pan and making them, but croquettes of any kind is a stretch for me.

I think Dean knew how to scramble eggs long before the year with Lisa and Ben, too. I bet Dean could feed them all just fine when he walked in the door, even if not necessarily strictly healthy meals.

The vegetable thing is one of my little happy places, weirdly. I can't see John or Dean bothering with them, even canned, but Sam wanted normal *so much* that I can see him digging into the sweet potatoes and the green beans at that Thanksgiving dinner with his little girlfriend really happily.

See also: A Very Supernatural Christmas. When Dean throws the Funions at him and makes the crack about not forgetting his vegetables, I totally spun that into little Sam being very earnest about how they should be eating greens, and John and Dean sort of sighing and opening a can of vegetables once in a while. And I can see Sam clinging to it: normal people eat healthy food and take care of themselves, thus the salad eating even now, and the running, etc.

This is what I do in my spare time. Sigh.