Dean seems to be able to manage his alcohol dependency well, but I don't think Sam trusts himself to manage substance use/abuse quite as well.

He abuses alcohol though. Not as "masterfully" as Dean does, but he's sought solace in the bottom of a bottle of Jack as late as last season.

As for Sam setting an example of getting out--I think the mere fact that he couldn't erases it. He's back, and he's more back than Dean ever was.

At the same time as I think Dean had a huge role in raising Sam, I think tying his physical confrontations with him to any shade of parental corporal abuse is doing him ill. They have a pretty clear sibling push-and-shove relationship going on as of the start of the series. There's been no indication that violence between them is anything that was used in a disciplinary fashion. Even though I follow the implication that John may have hit at least Dean, I think if Dean hit Sam it was a brother thing, and not a parental figure thing. I also think fandom gives Dean a bigger parental role than the script does, because it's so appealing.

And I don't think there's any indication he in his right mind would ever hit Ben, or even raise him like his father raised him. We saw him yell at Ben once, and that was a clear fear of doing John-like things. It wasn't drill sargeant-ish at the least. The closest he got to reliving that pattern was moving around with brusque explanations, and that was just one move. I don't think *we* or the Braedens had anything to fear there, although Dean might not see it that way.

Lisa made her clean break in YCHtT. She didn't reach out to him after

Lisa's implication was that her calls were after the breakup, but she did state she called him.

thanks, I'm still not tracking things clearly yet.

I can't believe Dean ever hit Sam in real anger, or even in a disciplinary way, when he was a kid. I can't remember him even hitting Sam in anger during the show until maybe S2, although I'd have to go back and check.

I don't think Dean would ever have hit Lisa or Ben, and I think if Lisa knew what was happening to Dean in the vampire episode, she would have understand he shoved Ben for his own safety. The reasons for them not working are a lot more complex and emotional than that.

I'm not 100% sure Dean would never hit Ben in his right mind. But, regardless, I'd bet *Dean* is not 100% sure he'd never hit Ben while in his right mind.

I am 100% sure Dean would never hit Ben in his right mind. He's very conscious of not being his father. And I'm not even sure his father hit him. Dean's an amazing caretaker.

I think he thinks he's a sucky example, but not that he would do materially wrong by them.

Sneak peek of this week. Poor Sam. But, really, poor Dean. It has one of the realisation moments I really really wanted to witness. And he's taking it just as poorly as I'd imagine.

He abuses alcohol though. Not as "masterfully" as Dean does, but he's sought solace in the bottom of a bottle of Jack as late as last season.

Oh, most certainly. He's done some binge drinking on occasion. Still it's not been a regular means of coping for Sam as it has been with Dean. It could be if that wall starts crumbling...

Rewatching. The mannequins are taking me to a crying angel place.

If I were Sam, I might try to not lose consciousness ever again.

Man, I want to smish that sneak peek. Boys! I haven't rewatched promos or sneak peeks this much in forever.

The mannequins are taking me to a crying angel place.

It took me to the first Eccleston Dr. Who episode, which is one of the ... four? I've ever seen. I have seen Blink, though, and if it had been statues, I would have gone there, I'm sure.

When I heard rumors about the coming episode I was convinced it would be awful and weird, and I'm SO looking forward to it now.