Now the flip is that John didn't last a hundred years, or that Alastair never even saw John in hell and it was a lie based on Alastair knowing after 30 years of torture where to push Dean's buttons.

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. Partly because I'm just a sap and want Dean not to suffer so much, but partly because I think it makes a better story. John wasn't a saint, after all, just a righteous man.

Yes - I don't know why anyone would trust anything Alastair has to say on the subject.

And contrary to what was said upthread - this episode actually gave me hope that there was some way that they could get John back on the show.

I know that Constantine was already mentioned, but was anyone else reminded of Loki and Bartleby in Dogma?

Not until now! That's a very similar dynamic, you're right.

I threadsucked, so no meara, but I headdesked at the corner they painted themselves into while lovingly caressing their copies of The Prophecy and stealing boldly from it plotting this out.

I don't actually think casting a white actor would have twisted the story they were trying to tell: instead, it would have avoided the hamfistedness. I mean, I've seen it done. I *own* a copy of The Prophecy myself, after all. C. Walken is a pretty pale white guy. It still worked, and worked better.

Agreed that having Anna as the bad angel would have been just as problematic, just differently problematic.

It's... proportional representation? Is that the term, Suela? Where I'd be less irked if, you know, there was a balance. It's not that they don't cast white men as antagonists (they do, often): it's that they don't cast *non-white men* as recurring allies. The only non-white male recurring characters have all been adversaries. (Victor turns ally, but then he dies.)

At this point, as I'm convinced that *anyone* the Winchesters interact with has DOOM DOOM DOOM in invisible ink on the forehead, I'm actually okay with the idea of a recurring, non-white male ally who, like Pamela, gets caught up in the fatal hot mess that is Sam and Dean. So long as, like Pamela, the death has weight and agency and makes narrative sense and feels organic rather than tacked on. *cough*Victor*cough*

Is Principal Hotass from Buffy doing anything right now? He'd be awesomecakes.

But other than THAT (and other than Anna and Uriel calling Castiel Cas, which irked and felt OOC), I loved the episode.

IIRC, Principle Hotass (hee) is POTUS on 24.

not anymore. there's a woman President now.

That was a couple seasons ago. I don't know what he's doing now, but he's not on 24.

So, CLEARLY, he needs to come over and help save the universe. While being really, really ridiculously good looking.

Can't argue with that.