Jayne: We was just about to spring into action, Captain. Complicated escape and rescue op. Wash: I was going to watch. It was very exciting.

'Shindig'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Theresa - Sep 27, 2010 7:30:20 pm PDT #14362 of 30002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"

I just pictured Sam and Dean look alike ancestors in pilgrim hats and buckles. It's as precious as lederhosen.


Morgana - Sep 27, 2010 10:37:16 pm PDT #14363 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

I’ve spent a few hours this evening reading my way around LJ and the vast majority of people seem to share the consensus opinion we have here of WTF and have been pointing out the same logic gaps in Friday’s episode. The following section from destina’s LJ raised some points that I don’t think we’ve discussed:

I don't think he was especially emotionless with Dean, because keep in mind, he has never really been separated from Dean this last year. He's known where Dean was, that he was safe, and he has clearly been keeping tabs on his brother. So there is no big outburst of emotion there; he's glad to see Dean. But still...their reunion was so hollow. I mean, we did get a hug, but...I'm not feeling it.

And this is where I get to the point that has had me hung up since I first spoiled myself about Sam's return. On the one hand, I truly believe Sam feels/tells himself he did the right thing for Dean all the way around. They were both so tired, before the big battle. They didn't trust each other. They were not happy on the road together. Everything was a disgreement, an argument, and there were no happy moments for them. Since season three, Dean has basically been telling Sam he's tired, that he wants off the road. Sam has been listening. So he took this opportunity to do for Dean what he thinks Dean will never do for himself: give Dean the normal life Dean has always craved (see: WIAWSNB, several years ago) and the family he wants, while Sam goes on hunting, having given up all desire for it himself. He knows there's no way out.

Also, you can't help but think Sam was a little tired of the fighting and bickering, and when he came back from Hell, he was probably not in any shape to go back to the same old patterns. So he made a choice. Was it a good choice? No. Was it motivated with Dean's best interests at heart? We're supposed to believe it was. Bobby clearly thinks it was. Bobby comes from a position of someone who lost his apple pie life; he's not objective about this at all. And he loves Dean, like Sam does. They both want the best for him.

But I don't buy it. I'm sorry, Sam has to be colossally stupid about the person he knows (well, used to know) best in the world to think even for one moment that Dean's normal life WITHOUT SAM has any meaning whatsoever. Let's not forget that Sam was on the other side of that fence once, and he knows how it feels to have your brother in hell and be powerless to save him, so there's no excuse! There was a time Sam was completely perceptive about Dean, back in seasons 1 and 2, and I feel like that has totally disappeared. In what universe does a Winchester come back from the dead and let his brother live on in agony, thinking he's still in the pit? It just doesn't make sense. I can't make it make sense; I've tried. Even if Sam assumes Dean would try to leave his normal life and get back on the road, Sam doesn't have to let him…..

I’d add in addition to WIAWSNB there’s Dream A Little Dream, where the guys went dreamwalking and Sam saw Dean’s dream of Lisa and the picnic basket, where she’s talking about Ben. And Sam knew that before Dean planned to say yes to Michael during his “Farewell Tour” in 99 Problems he went to see Lisa. So maybe he did have reason to believe Dean did want a family, even if it was an idealized version. All of these could be added to Sam wanting to give Dean something to focus on other than making crossroads deals and spending the rest of his life trying to rescue Sam. Hell, Dean’s always idealized families and mothers anyway, now he has his own version to protect.

Her comments about how long they had been so massively unhappy with one another, the constant fighting and mistrust, and how Dean had repeatedly told Sam that he was tired, are all points that I don’t think we’ve mentioned here. We’ve been acting as though once they saw one another again they should be jump into the (continued...)


Morgana - Sep 27, 2010 10:37:17 pm PDT #14364 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

( continues...) Impala and go vrooming down the road blasting Metallica, even if Dean were to return home at night or on the weekends to Lisa. But I’m not sure I want to see a return to the same relationship they’ve have for the past two seasons, with the anger and bitterness and distrust and all the arguing. I am just holding my breath that at some point they get to an actual partnership/season 2 vibe again.


Juliebird - Sep 27, 2010 10:52:07 pm PDT #14365 of 30002
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

You know, they lost a Campbell in that episode. No one seems to care. Well, Sam makes a face

Is that who that was? I thought it was just a random neighbor. It was the quiet Campbell? --Just went back and checked, and the dead guy in the car is no one I recognize.


sumi - Sep 28, 2010 3:16:01 am PDT #14366 of 30002
Art Crawl!!!

I think that he wasn't introduced with the rest because he was still watching the house.

(The dead Campbell.)


Juliebird - Sep 28, 2010 3:51:57 am PDT #14367 of 30002
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

Ah, that makes sense.


§ ita § - Sep 28, 2010 4:17:18 am PDT #14368 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Sam and Dean have always bickered. But there has always also been love there. Even when they were at each other's throats the most, it was because Sam thought he was doing the right thing for Dean. I do expect them back on the road again, and I do expect Dean would have left Lisa early on for that, and almost left her ep 1 for it. And they would have their typical relationship since S1. They've been arguing this whole time. But they've also needed each other's wellbeing.


Ginger - Sep 28, 2010 5:37:34 am PDT #14369 of 30002
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

Do we really know how long the stay in hell was for Sam?


Juliebird - Sep 28, 2010 5:45:26 am PDT #14370 of 30002
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

If the time flowed the same as it did for Dean, even 1 day on earth could be, what, 17 weeks in hell? My math is probably way off.


§ ita § - Sep 28, 2010 6:09:35 am PDT #14371 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

3 days on Earth is a year in Hell. So it really depends on what "about a year" being back means.