Zoe: Yeah? Thought you'd get land crazy that long in port. Wash: Probably, but I've been sane a long while now, and change is good.

'Shindig'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


§ ita § - Sep 24, 2010 8:49:07 pm PDT #14160 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

A beer with Sid and a nightcap at home doesn't seem like a lot of drinking, necessarily. It could be, of course, but it's not a lot of data to go on.

But, aside from breakfast time where he thankfully not drinking, it's about all we saw him do with his leisure time.

And I'm really probably just judging from what I'm familiar with, but drinking not too much (so you can still drive) and then topping up with hard alcohol when you get home seems like an avenue to get drunk before bed. Like drunk before bed is the goal.

THe montage also had a fair amount of beer.


Typo Boy - Sep 24, 2010 8:54:36 pm PDT #14161 of 30002
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

You know I'm not sure that Sam not saying anything for a year does fit with his character. Through most of the series yet, but I thought one of the points was that he finally grew up. Not telling Dean is not grownup behavior. And I totally don't see Bobby keeping that secret. Having lost his wife he has to know some of the depth of the grief Dean is suffering. And knowing that he does not tell?

Bobby, I'll wait for explanation. Sam - well one reaction to surviving trauma can be emotional numbness - having difficulty feeling anything especially empathy for another.

Not telling Dean until Samiel gave permission could also be part of a deal he made to get out of hell. (The story he told Dean about not knowing could be a lie. Or not remembering could be part of the deal. So he thought he was not telling Dean he was back to give Dean a family, but really it was part of a spell or geas he agreed to be put under.)

Either emotional numbness, or being other mind control could explain the strange flatness of Sam's tone. He did not really seem that glad to see Dean, or that broken up about parting. Or feel all that guilty about what he put Dean through. An inability to feel much of anything, or operating under mind control could explain that. Or maybe Sam has become a dick.


-t - Sep 24, 2010 9:04:43 pm PDT #14162 of 30002
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Good points. That was a pretty big glass of whatever to sip on while he checked the perimeter and there's no reason not to suppose that that was his habit.


-t - Sep 24, 2010 9:10:39 pm PDT #14163 of 30002
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

I have no problem imagining Sam almost calling Dean a million times in that year but every time just barely managing to convince himself that by not calling he's letting Dean be safe and happy and normal. Similarly for Bobby but fortified by his own wish to have been able to live in peace with his wife, I'd see him as making that calculation once and then sticking to his decision.


SuziQ - Sep 24, 2010 9:21:09 pm PDT #14164 of 30002
Back tattoos of the mother is that you are absolutely right - Ame

Taking the last bit of the finale into account, maybe Sam was keeping an eye on Dean throughout the year, making sure he was "living the life". And didn't step in until something was threatening that pretty picture.


Marcia - Sep 24, 2010 9:58:05 pm PDT #14165 of 30002
Kneel before Glod. ~Stephen Colbert

What Amy said: Yes to all of it.

Pod!Sam has deflated to just right--nummy

I know, right?! Seeing a smaller Sam was worth watching it twice. ::Sigh::

Seems Grandpa Samuel has a lot more knowledge in his noggin than the average hunter. I gotta wonder what our Sam knows and if he's in on Grandpa Sam's seemingly sneaky machinations. Something's definitely up with him and Sam is certainly different, but it's gotta be what happened to him in hell. And hunting with Gramps and the Campbells all this time, I have to wonder what influence they've had on him without Dean's to temper it.

I'm also glad to learn that Dean didn't totally keep his promise and did try to find a way to get Sam out of hell. Yay!

How long till next Friday??


Morgana - Sep 24, 2010 10:58:13 pm PDT #14166 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

Various thinky thoughts:

And then, Dean believed that Sam was Sam far too easily.

Why didn't anyone ask the obvious question - if Sam is out, what about Lucifer? Is he still locked up? What about Adam? And Michael?

Not telling Dean until Samiel gave permission could also be part of a deal he made to get out of hell

By "Samiel" I assume we're all referring to Samuel? I thought Samuel very definitely said that it was Sam who wouldn't let them contact Dean until Dean was in danger from the djinn. Which is interesting, because it indicates that although Samuel seems to be leading the Campbell merry band of Hunters, he defers to Sam.

I also don't buy that Bobby would not tell Dean, or that Sam would go to him.

That whole setup was odd. On the one hand I was happy to see that Sam and Bobby have become even closer allies. It would make sense for Sam to go to Bobby, who was always their first port of call when seeking information or comfort. On the other hand this seems to show that Dean has had almost no contact at all with Bobby in the past year. We know he probably hasn't seen him, since Bobby has never met Lisa and Ben before this.

But I still think it is cruel to have left Dean to grieve and think of Sam in hell all this time.

Sam is definitely changed and I don't think Samuel and the other Campbells are a good influence.

At first I was kind of glad for Sam because he's spent the last two years or so so isolated, what with pretty much the entire hunter community, all of heaven and most of the demons against him. Then he found out that a lot of the people he knew along the way during his life had actually been demons too (hello Brady), and yeah, he's been walking a pretty lonely path once Dean was angry and occupied with Castiel and all the angels. (I'm not saying Dean wasn't right to be pissed off or he wasn't carrying a heavy burden, I'm just saying Sam didn't really have anyone to talk to. Go with me here, I'm just trying to make a point.) So now he actually has some people around him, family members at that..... and it looks like they may turn out to be problematic too.

Obviously, Sam came back wrong, or it's not Sam, or some such shit. The impala thing is too, too anvil-y.

That Dean wasn't driving the Impala, or that Sam didn't want to take her? Because I can understand why Sam didn't take her, and part of me is perversely glad he didn't. Really, he deserves his own car (which in the Winchester world translates into his own apartment, more or less) after all this time. The Impala has always been unquestionably Dean's and as far as we know even after all their years riding together Sam never even had his own set of keys. That was Dean's car. Sam never even got to listen to the music he wanted (until Dean died, which I'm sure he wouldn't want to remember). And when he said that he had his car arranged the way he liked it, yeah, I appreciated the independence there. (Also I was wondering if OCD guy from Mystery Spot was going to reappear.) I know it won't last because Show will have to eventually get them back together, which means getting them in the same car, and the Impala will always win out.

He really put Dean in a bad position. It does amaze me that he thought that Dean could just walk away.

Yeah, that was really tone deaf. "I shoved you at her, but I think you should be done now." On the other hand, that’s what Dean had wanted Sam to do to Jess, so it’s another callback to the Pilot.

Also very glad that Lisa apparently went into their relationship with her eyes open, fighting for what she wanted ("It was the best year of my life") because I'll stand behind someone actively making that choice even if it's risky.

Until that conversation I wasn't too sure of her, because she seemed too ... pliable, I guess. Too unquestioning. You're up way too late making suspicious calls using the wrong pronoun? Okay fine. You're acting so bizarrely that the neighbors are talking to me about it? Okay fine. You don't want to explain, you just (continued...)


Morgana - Sep 24, 2010 10:58:13 pm PDT #14167 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

( continues...) want me and Ben to leave the house? Okay, fine. Your dead brother, the one who's in hell is standing here and you're saying I should pack up to go to someone I've never even met? Okay fine. But the talk on the stairs redeemed her for me.

am disgusted that he's self-aware enough to say he's a cold-hearted sonofabitch, and puts the onus on Dean to keep him human without taking any responsibility himself?

He didn't exactly say that. But I think she's refering to the end of the episode where Dean says he got djinn on them by rushing out side to help his neighbors and Sam was saying that's why he needed him. Because Dean would go without thinking and Sam wouldn't think about it.

It's been too many hours now since I've watched that scene. But couldn't it be interpreted a little bit as "you're my big brother and you're awesome and I wish you were going with me and I'm going to miss you?" Because at the time I have a vague recollection of thinking it was nice seeing Sam compliment Dean.

My main thought, at the moment, is that Sammy has grown up and out of the shadow of his brother.

Yes. I'm hoping they can allow this to happen without humbling him for it.


Strix - Sep 25, 2010 2:29:57 am PDT #14168 of 30002
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

Ok, now that I am rested, let me think.

The Impala thing...well, think about the last time we saw the Impala. The huge sybolism of it that was used in "Swan Song." It symbolizes -- has been quite deliberately drawn to symbolize, explicitly -- the boys' emotional connection.

So when Dean offered up the keys, that was Dean acknowledging that Sam had grown up, that was him also making this huge gesture, not just that he is going to try to devote his life, as much as he can, to HIS growing up; protecting the family he has tried to create rather than Sam, or the world at-large, but more importantly, of basically, "here is our brotherly love, our history, our connection. Take it and protect it, value it."

Sam saying he's got his own car tricked out? Now, yeah, I can see it posssibly as a symbol of independence, but the casual way he was all "Nah" was indicative of emotional rejection. Saying no to the car was like a denial of Dean -- a denial of their relationship, their whole relationship and history -- a denial of the thing that brought him out of thrall to Lucifer and allowed him to summon up his own agency.

Sure, I get that being Lucifer's holding cell in hell would cause a little trauma, but c'mon. Dean was down there 40 years. Sam was (if we can trust him) there for...what, a day? A week?

And when Dean asked him about the cage, it seemed like he was trawling gently for verification, and frankly, it seemed like Sam was lying.

Also...the tests. Um. Sam cut HIMSELF with his own knife, poured something that was white into water and gargled with it. There's nothing I've see with my own eyes that anyone HAS tested him. Did he do his own self-tests for Bobby?

Sam is flat as hell. And Sammy is not a calm boy. He was saying the right things, but his aspect was off. That's why I don't buy emo trauma; his facade just isn't good enough to pull of dead-inside when it comes to Dean. There's something else.

Lisa's life must have sucked pretty good if a year of a whacked out, grieving, drunk, traumed out Dean was the best. Granted, he's a delicious mess, but still.

I do love that Mary's family was killing vamps on the Mayflower.

Also, Bobby and Sam keeping it from Dean for a year so he could have a chance at a normal life? That's appalling. He could have had the chance for a normal life -- if he truly wanted one -- while knowing Sam was alive. I think Sam was trying to force Dean into a chance for what SAM wanted, not necessarily Dean. And Dean could have made an informed decision, knowing Sam was alive.

Also, it was reckless of Bobby and Sam. "Hey, I've been pulled out of Hell, where I was SATAN'S PACK AND PLAY! The PTB have been jerking my bro and I around for generations before we were born! But let's let Dean have a woman and child around to get emotionally involved with, and not let him know of the EXTRA ADDED DANGER DANGER, because he deserves a chance at a normal life."

What they forgot was that "normal" for Winchester's adds up to dead families. SMACK.


Marcia - Sep 25, 2010 3:28:30 am PDT #14169 of 30002
Kneel before Glod. ~Stephen Colbert

To Sam, I'm guessing the Impala is just not home without Dean driving it. And I wonder if his history alone in the car while Dean was in hell is something he doesn't want to relive.

Plus, he probably thinks Dean is going to need the trunk and everything in it to protect his new family.

I do agree that keeping Dean in the dark all this time was cruel and sad-making, but I think Sam just sees himself now as destined to serve as a hunter, and wanting Dean there to help keep Sam human.

I'm not sure about the Campbells. There's a deeper level of hunter than the average hunters out there. This is more intense. Not sure I like it.