I think Obama made a tactical (or do I mean strategic) error in that he let McCain set the tone and pace of the debate, so he always seemed to be reacting and refuting instead of making his own points.

Mc Cain lost me when he refused to condemn the Bush whitehouse for torture

So why the fuck is Obama giving him a pass on that?

Damn. I had such high hopes for Obama in this debate. He needs to bring the passion next time. Seriously.

Yeah, it is really good to read this.(all the people who feel like Obama is winning) Cause I was feeling like Obama was getting his ass kicked. McCain keeps coming up with very specific lies about Obama, this terrible terrible thing Obama did in a horrified drama queen tone of voice that shows how we can believe Obama would this stupid/evil/reckless. And Obama answers back in this formal tone, with no passion behind the counterattack. So I'm guessing a low information voter (which would have to be close 100% of the swing or undecideds at this point) would rate McCain a lot higher than Obama. But maybe for once I'm overestimating the stupidity of the American people. Reading this thread makes me hope so.

I think McCain's doing well. He's got a handle on the details, he's presenting his position well, he's got a good idea of wherehis strengths lie. Though I notice the audience gets cold whenever he talks about his experiences and who he knows. But I think Obama's holding his own. He's probably a bit more long-winded than the general electorate would go for, but he's sounding pretty capable. This debate should be McCain's strongest, but I think Obama's shown he has a pretty decent grasp of the current geopolitical landscape.

I don't see this debate changing the polling too much. I still think that McCain's "will he or won't he" is going to have a bigger impact on people's impressions.

CNN live tracking of the debate shows Obama doing very well.

Gah. That "he just doesn't understand" line is dangerous.

I think I'm going to have to go bury my head in crack fic or something or I'm not going to sleep. Ugh.

Hell, maybe we cynics overestimated the stupidity of the American people. I'd be thrilled.

Bringing his father in was good. That was powerful.

Hell maybe we cynics estimated the stupidity of the American people.

Part of my problem is that after the past several years I've lost all faith in my ability to gauge anything about "the American people" even at the broadest level.

nice twist

no one with a poor economy keeps a strong mil presents in the world

president is not a daddy or a nurse -- i don't want you take care of anyone, I want you to lead