I've been elbow-deep in a toilet once or twice that made me reconsider for a few seconds. But not enough to drive to Nebraska.

admitting the realities about kids requiring effort and sacrifices

I hear this so often, I wonder about our definition of 'sacrifice'. Giving up things we expected to keep? Not having things that we want?

This is genuinely confusing to me because I've seen so many parents who integrate their children's needs into their own and everyone gets what they need. Rather than losing something by having kids, they seem only to see parenting as gaining something in their lives.

Reminds me of a woman who walked across the country with me in '86. She strapped her 6 month old to her back and kept on trucking. That kid? The coolest, most grounded child I ever met.

I'm trying to figure out how long plane trips qualify as relaxing even if you don't have kids. Unless that's the point: "You think air travel drains your will to live now? If you have kids you'll look back on those times wistfully."

My first time on an airplane was when we moved cross-country when I was almost 7, but we'd had a good amount of experience with long car trips by then, so I think my brother and I were somewhat trained by then.

Sometimes I think that kids just aren't worth the trouble. Then I realize that if everyone were like me, the human race would have died out way back in caveperson days....

On the flip side, thank god some people do think/feel like you, because there are too many damn people in the world.

I see people on flights managing kids just fine. And I traveled a lot with my parents, who basically did their thing...And we also did plenty of long car trips at all ages. I'm not saying its always like that, I just feel sorry for people that think that's impossible.

Really depends on the kid, as has been said. mac at 7 is not reading to himself, and even when watching a movie or playing a video game will interrupt me to look at things or watch with him, or make a comment, or just verify that I know he is still there.

and the portable DVD brings up another point - you are bringing stuff for your child. I travel with a lot less to entertain myself than I used to because I am also carrying some stuff for mac and need an extra hand if possible - security is a bit of a mess with us.

Fear of sounding like mac is a chore and getting eyerolls and sighs of annoyance is something that limits who I vent to. But truth is, a lot of the time parenting is a chore.

Those of us who remember being self-sufficient on trips probably were, but we're not gonna remember how we were at 20 months or 4 years old when we needed the most attention. There's a big difference between under-fives and older kids.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I remember reading for hours in the back seat of the car, but I've heard the stories about the years I cried for those hours. (10 hour drive at least once a year.)

Speaking of entertaining, does anyone remember that Steve Martin routine that includes something like 'the individualist's creed'? I promise [I promise], to be unique [to be unique].

Yep. That was off the A Wild & Crazy Guy album. My brother and I loved Steve (and that album) in the '70s.

This is genuinely confusing to me because I've seen so many parents who integrate their children's needs into their own and everyone gets what they need. Rather than losing something by having kids, they seem only to see parenting as gaining something in their lives.

This is more of what I was trying to articulate. I just see more and more "parents with kids" rather than "people in families", if that makes any sense.

Speaking of entertaining, does anyone remember that Steve Martin routine that includes something like 'the individualist's creed'? I promise [I promise], to be unique [to be unique].

Yes, I know it's on one of his albums because I played them endlessly growing up. I think it was A Wild and Crazy Guy but it might have been Comedy is Not Pretty. I had them both.

ETA: Hah! Steve Martin x-post. the last line was "I promise not to repeat things other people say [I promise... audience burst into laughter]".

You know, even though I lived through it, I can't even tell you how we drove from Arizona to Ohio and back with a 6- and an 18-month old. But we did it. And I only got thrown up on twice! I remember by the time the trip was over, I never wanted to take that long a drive with kids that young again, but if push came to shove, I would have done it. Is it a chore? Sure. Do you do it anyway, because it needs to be done? Sure. I dunno, when you want kids, you just do whatever needs to be done. I was afraid to change diapers before I had kids. Once I had 'em, well, someone had to clean them up. The dog wasn't going to do it.

Speaking of parenting (OK, not really) I just told my cat to "Stop being naughty." (She was trying to chew my earphone cables again.)

OK, time to hide them....

tommyrot, reasoning with cats is a zero-sum exercise; you know that! I've taken to begging Amarna to get off the tv stand before she starts to scratch the screen (sticky tape only works for so long before she can't resist it anymore and Must.Scratch.), but she just gives me a look of "What?" before trying to get back to batting at the screen. The laser pointer only works occasionally as a distraction.