Willow: That's a work ethic! Buffy, you're developing a work ethic! Buffy: Do they make an ointment for that?

'Beneath You'


Natter 61*  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


tommyrot - Oct 27, 2008 1:23:36 pm PDT #6859 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Cat Tank Play House

Also, Cat Firetruck Play House!


Cashmere - Oct 27, 2008 1:24:03 pm PDT #6860 of 10001
Now tagless for your comfort.

I told our volunteer coordinator that only Obama could make me overcome my phone fear. He laughed. I need to arrange childcare for some work this week.

I think parental notification laws, even carefully written ones, fail to grasp the desperation in the worst of circumstances. It seems like a great idea but this would require some sort of case management--having someone help the girl navigate this system. Most reproductive care centers (Planned Parenthood) are muzzled by federal law and can't "recommend" abortion.

When I went in for my pregnancy test when I was 18, the nurse asked me what I wanted to do. I said the word and she silently handed me a brochure with a number to call. She said she couldn't say anything more to me about it. The number I called simply asked how far along I was, told me how much it cost and scheduled an appointment. Nobody offered to help me, answer any questions or provide any support.

I can't imagine approaching a total stranger and getting that kind of help, or how they would navigate the process to keep federal dollars for family planning without "advocating abortion"--which is where prolifers want places like Planned Parenthood's budgets gutted.


Pix - Oct 27, 2008 1:39:44 pm PDT #6861 of 10001
The status is NOT quo.

Gut reaction: Lip service. Doesn't mean anything when you are talking about the reality in most situations.

The word "generally" is key in that explanation. And honestly, the bigger thing for me is that I do not believe that a girl who gets pregnant in a abusive situation should have to go to court to get permission to have an abortion, and there's no way to write a statute to prevent that from happening. Getting pregnant is terrifying enough--how many teen girls have it in them to fight their way through a court hearing when they are already scared and ashamed? And how would these girls even know the procedure to follow or have a way to GET to court without the parent finding out?

Sorry, megan, I'm not trying to pile on you. This issue carries a lot of baggage for me between my work as a teacher and my work as a domestic violence crisis counselor.


megan walker - Oct 27, 2008 1:44:39 pm PDT #6862 of 10001
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

I don't feel piled on.

I don't love the idea of notification, but I do feel strongly about people performing medical procedures on minors without informed consent, so I'm trying to weigh those two things in mind. No one else can decide for me; that's why we each get a vote.

I now find myself wondering how other Western countries deal with the informed consent issue.


javachik - Oct 27, 2008 1:52:05 pm PDT #6863 of 10001
Our wings are not tired.

I used to feel that way, too, Megan.

Then I had the realization that a teen doesn't have to get consent, or notify anyone, if she chooses to keep the baby. And having a baby is also a "medical procedure" that is actually far more dangerous, statistically, than having an abortion.

I'm not thrilled with it either way. But I can't see how it helps a scared teenager to tell a parent about her pregnancy if she hadn't already planned to. If you're close to your parents, you'll tell them anyway. If you're not, a law isn't going to make you suddenly have a good, supportive relationship. Plus, my two OB/GYN friends say the way this proposition is worded puts all of the burden for notification on the doctors. And sheeeeet, I can barely get in to see my GYN, much less actually get her to make calls on my behalf if I need it.


DavidS - Oct 27, 2008 1:52:59 pm PDT #6864 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I was flipping through the book version of Stuff White People Like during lunch and now the entire front page of The Onion A.V. Club is a dense singularity of all things White People Like:

Morrissey
Office Space
Sesame Street
Of Montreal
Charlie Kaufman
Jon Hodgman
Samantha Bee


Typo Boy - Oct 27, 2008 2:00:27 pm PDT #6865 of 10001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

Hmm, one thing to remember is that parents are not in fact required to give informed consent for such things as a broken leg. Nor do you need judicial bypass. If a kid has a broken leg, a doctor or emergency tech can set it, and worry about stuff like notifying the parent later. And you know if a kid could go to any ob-gyn and get an abortion maybe you could argue it wasn't an emergency. But "moderates" have been so supportive in helping wingnuts nibble away at abortion rights, that in a lot of cases it will take a two day bus trip for a kid to get to a clinic where an abortion can be performed. At any rate even for kids in urban areas it can take some real digging to find a place - cause if you are in a poor area the odds are good all your local hospitals are owned by places exercising consience clauses. So any additional restrictions - such as notification or burdensome red tape to avoid notification - will discourage kids from getting safe legal abortions. But but not from trying something dumb with a coat hangers. I guess it is all a matter of how seriously you weigh a few dead teenagers.


megan walker - Oct 27, 2008 2:12:38 pm PDT #6866 of 10001
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

Not piled on, but somewhat offended at this point.


msbelle - Oct 27, 2008 2:14:55 pm PDT #6867 of 10001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

umm, wow. I am pretty sure no one is flippant about dead teenagers.


DavidS - Oct 27, 2008 2:17:25 pm PDT #6868 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I knew a girl who got pregnant at age 16. She used birth control but it failed. Her mother was a devout Catholic and an overpowering matriach. My friend snuck off to have an abortion, because her mother wouldn't have allowed it.

Without that abortion she wouldn't have been able to go to college, and get a post-graduate degree and the career she currently has (and a marriage and three children).

The person who is pregnant should be able to decide whether they want to continue the pregnancy. Ideally they could turn to their parents for support, but there's really no guarantee that they'll find support there.

Notification is just one of myriad ways that opponents to abortion have changed their strategy from outlawing it, to simply throwing up so many roadblocks that it ceases to be an option.