BSG(Doctor Quibbler)
OK then, who thinks it would be a good idea if 0 cards were 1 positive?
Giles: I jump out of the circle, jump back in, and, and, shake my gourd. Buffy: Hey, I think I know this ritual. The ancient shamans were next called upon to do the Hokey-Pokey and to turn themselves around.
'Dirty Girls'
Gaming 1: You are likely to be eaten by a grue
A thread for the discussion of games: board, LARP, MMORPG, video, tabletop RPG, game theory etc. etc. and all attendant news, developments and ancillary subjects thereof, as well as coordinating/scheduling games either online or IRL. All are welcome to chime in, talk about their favorite games or learn about gaming of any sort.
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chrismg - Dec 04, 2013 5:57:33 pm PST #21534 of 26134
"...and then Legolas and the Hulk destroy the entire Greek army." - Penny Arcade
billytea - Dec 04, 2013 6:24:30 pm PST #21535 of 26134
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.
BSG
OK then, who thinks it would be a good idea if 0 cards were 1 positive?
This still has the problem that the only way it can happen is through a card being added to the skill check. (In this it differs from the SR question, as that's an interrupt played openly before the check.) Generally speaking, I'd be happier avoiding any questions about the advisability of skill check effect cards.
chrismg - Dec 04, 2013 7:40:08 pm PST #21536 of 26134
"...and then Legolas and the Hulk destroy the entire Greek army." - Penny Arcade
BSG
You're the GM, so what you say goes. I think you're splitting that hair pretty goddamn fine, though.
Polter-Cow - Dec 04, 2013 7:59:59 pm PST #21537 of 26134
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!
BSG
I disagree. Skill checks are supposed to be entirely secret. As of now, I know one card you have in your hand. If you talk about the effects of that card, and then you play it, when the cards are revealed, we will know who played it, which removes an element of secrecy.
With the interrupts, as billytea said, the card is played openly. We may have a good idea of one card Leoben holds, but since he's not playing it now, it doesn't affect this check. If it shows up, well, we don't know the numerical value of it, so it's not certain it's his anyway.
There's definitely a difference.
billytea - Dec 04, 2013 8:23:09 pm PST #21538 of 26134
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.
BSG
You're the GM, so what you say goes. I think you're splitting that hair pretty goddamn fine, though.
A lot of the tone I try to set comes from the games at boardgamegeek (where they're now up to game 393). This issue arises because of the FAQ's secrecy rule clarifications. These state that players are forbidden from saying anything about what they play into skill checks, except to say the amount was high/low/medium. They also state that players may state they have a skill card with a desired ability, such as asking for an SP before playing an Inspirational Speech. Cards with skill check effects kind of fall under both categories. You can't say anything about them because they're played into checks, but you can say something about them because they have skill card abilities that can be asked about.
The game would be workable allowing the latter to take precedence, but I follow BGG in being strict about them. There are two reasons for this; to avoid making it too easy to detect or preent Cylon play, and to keep a level of uncertainty in team planning. I think the game is more enjoyable with that element.
tl;dr: I agree that this rules space is ambiguous, but I don't think it's hair-splitting. The official FAQ is quite emphatic about preventing discussion of what cards players put into a skill check. Given a ruling that this takes precedence over skill check effect cards, I think it's pretty clear how it then applies.
Just to muddy things, there is a related ruling I'd make that's closer to hair-splitting. That is where a player is not asking whether they or anyone else should play a given 0-value card, but instead stating that they think it would be a good or a bad idea to play a given 0-value card. For instance, it would be permissible to say "This would be a bad check for anyone to play a TI-0. There are only two positive colours, more Destiny would be more likely to hurt than to help." However, any discussion of the reasoning would have to stay within bounds re skill check secrecy. I'm thinking particularly of cards like RT-0 and EN-0. (e.g. It would be a breach to suggest people shouldn't play an RT-0 if you're planning to play a 5-point card, and it would also be inappropriate to suggest this is a good check for an EN-0 when you're planning to play Blue.)
As a general principle: if the permissibility of a question or comment seems ambiguous under the secrecy rules, best to err on the side of caution.
billytea - Dec 05, 2013 12:01:44 am PST #21539 of 26134
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.
BSG
Meanwhile, everyone has passed on interrupts, and we begin.
Training Snafu:
8 GR
Destiny:
2 cards
Leoben:
0 cards
Baltar:
Hoshi:
(COs received)
Cain:
(COs received)
Helo:
(COs received)
Cottle:
Baltar is up next.
chrismg - Dec 05, 2013 6:35:14 am PST #21540 of 26134
"...and then Legolas and the Hulk destroy the entire Greek army." - Penny Arcade
BSG(Doctor All-In)
I play 2 cards.
billytea - Dec 05, 2013 6:41:14 am PST #21541 of 26134
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.
BSG
Training Snafu:
8 GR
Destiny:
2 cards
Leoben:
0 cards
Baltar:
2 cards
Hoshi:
0 cards
Cain:
0 cards
Helo:
1 card
Cottle:
Cottle is last.
omnis_audis - Dec 05, 2013 7:31:53 am PST #21542 of 26134
omnis, pursue. That's an order from a shy woman who can use M-16. - Shir
BSG (Toasty Hoshi)
Cottle is last
Given he doesn't draw much in these colors... Doubt he will be of much use. Should make the reveal fun. Let's hope Destiny isn't on your side.
billytea - Dec 05, 2013 3:40:39 pm PST #21543 of 26134
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.
BSG
Cottle plays 1 card. Cards played:
All Hands on Deck 0
At Any Cost 4
Bait 0
Bait 0
Dradis Contact 0
Violent Outbursts 4
Tally: 8 - 4 = 4. Fail. The AHoD adds 4 points to the check, but it's still not enough. the last remaining viper is damaged; both assault raptors are destroyed.
Next, the Treachery in the check activates. The DC-0 adds 2 raiders to Sector 1, the B-0 adds 1 civilian ship to Sector 4 and the VO-4 adds Doc Cottle to Sickbay.
Small mercies: the basestar activation has no effect, and the jump track advances. That concludes Cottle's turn. Leoben has opted to draw 2 Yellow and 1 Blue. Leoben, when you're ready, please post your move and action.