wasn't he just saying that lots of people don't trust government to make things better for them and have turned their attention and trust to other things?

Yes, but the way it came out was more like "People in rural Pennsylvania only go to church and like guns because they're too poor to know any better."

Obviously if he knew it was going to be on the news he would have phrased it better (or not said it at all), but yeesh. Not a shining moment for someone who's best known as a great orator.

"People in rural Pennsylvania only go to church and like guns because they're too poor to know any better."

Really? I mean, I know that's how some people have interpreted it, but I thought he was very clear in saying that they have good reason not to trust government, and that they turn their attention to these other things.

Obviously, what ends up mattering is how people interpret it, and of course I tend to assign the best interpretation to whatever he says, but I thought he was specifically NOT saying, "Those dumb hicks do this stupid stuff because they're stupid."

And it occurs to me to wonder -- have either of the Dems outlined a clear plan for getting out of Iraq?

You have independent medical providers competing against each other for your health care dollars providing incentives for both quality of care and reduced costs.

It might be different if that was how the system worked, but the reality is that you can't have a true free market, because the most of the customers are big companies, not the patients. Also, there are several studies that indicate that as much as 25% of the health-care dollar is spent trying to *not* pay for treatment.

Obviously if he knew it was going to be on the news he would have phrased it better (or not said it at all), but yeesh. Not a shining moment for someone who's best known as a great orator.

I saw a clip of the speech in question, and maybe I saw a part that wasn't as poorly put, but... I thought it came across as thoughtful and sympathetic. Of course, it was while nursing my first cup of coffee so there's that. I think the spin made it sound a lot worse than what he actually said, let alone the tone that he said it in.

Ah well, tomato, tomahto.

To me, the word "cling" in that context is pretty damn condescending, and colors the entire rest of the statement. Not to the extent that Faux News is spinning it, but it does fall under the "NOT HELPING" category of Things I Wish People On My Side Would Not Say/Do.

Jessica, I should clarify that by "Really?" I mean to say, "Huh! It enlarges my view to see that you think it was received that way, I will be keeping that in mind," and not, "What are you, crazy? That's just dumb!"

ETA: Okay, yeah, I see that. "Cling" is not a flattering verb to have used.

I think there's a lot of offense possible just in grouping going to church/buying a gun/hating the Other as things peope do when they've been screwed over.

things people do when they've been screwed over.

I read trashy novels and have stupid conversations with the cats.

I myself turn to the Internet and resentment of neoconservatives.