Bar maid! Bring me stronger ale! And some plump, succulent babies to eat!

Olaf the Troll ,'Showtime'


Natter 58: Let's call Venezuela!  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Jesse - Apr 15, 2008 6:14:52 am PDT #1849 of 10001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Ha HA! I've pretty much done everything that needed doing before my afternoon o' meetings! There is one thing I need from someone else, and I'm not sure how to get it, but other than that? Mission accomplished!


Sparky1 - Apr 15, 2008 6:16:51 am PDT #1850 of 10001
Librarian Warlord

Aside from that, it does seem like a book full of quotes from HP is not as much fair use.

I think they'll be arguing in those briefs that while it would fail if the only test were how much quoted material was used, that's not the test and courts recognize that the work that goes into organizing/indexing/cross referencing gets into the mix of fair use.

Still haven't read the briefs. And many of the things on my shelf are dealing with things out of copyright now -- but things like Tolkien's work must have been lexicon-ified while under copyright.


msbelle - Apr 15, 2008 6:20:54 am PDT #1851 of 10001
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

from a blog I read - weight loss: [link]

this was the part that stuck out for me:

"The more weight you'd like to permanently lose, the more of your lifestyle you'll need to permanently change"

which of course then leads me to the,

"Therefore if you don't like the life you're living while you're losing, you're much more likely to gain it back"


Kathy A - Apr 15, 2008 6:30:25 am PDT #1852 of 10001
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

My mom just called. Seems that we just dodged a bullet on our recent vacation. We had driven down to FL and back in my mom's car with no problems, getting home last Wednesday night. We did some local driving the next few days, and then she drove me to the airport on Saturday morning. On her way home, she smelt something really nasty coming from her car and left it on the driveway. When she pulled it into the garage that evening, there was a small dried puddle of something under the car, but she figured she'd have it checked when she had her oil changed today.

Well, she just barely made it to the car repair place. When they looked at it, they found that her transmission was completely shot, with a mixture of fluids including antifreeze inside and everything kerblooey. Luckily, she's under an extended warranty, so it should get fixed for a minimal cost. I'm glad for her that it didn't go while we were on the road or while she was driving around town.


bon bon - Apr 15, 2008 6:36:54 am PDT #1853 of 10001
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.

I think they'll be arguing in those briefs that while it would fail if the only test were how much quoted material was used, that's not the test and courts recognize that the work that goes into organizing/indexing/cross referencing gets into the mix of fair use.

Amount of quotation is one of the tests. There's no "I put a lot of work into this" test, and it sounds like it's all quotes, which is arguably not transformative and infringes on JKR's ability to market her own lexicon. It's certainly possible that lexicons created for Tolkien's work were under his permission or copyright. Obviously there's an issue for trial and it's not clear-cut. But the amount of work quoted is a significant part of the analysis.


Sparky1 - Apr 15, 2008 6:42:55 am PDT #1854 of 10001
Librarian Warlord

But the amount of work quoted is a significant part of the analysis.

What I meant to mean is that it -- like the other prongs -- isn't definitive and none of them are. All tests are applied, and all count.

This can only mean one thing: More coffee is necessary.

Also, I'm more limited today in my time to explore this because everyone else is down at the Supreme Court listening to a professor argue in the Irizarry case.


hippocampus - Apr 15, 2008 6:45:12 am PDT #1855 of 10001
not your mom's socks.

Also, I'm more limited today in my time to explore this because everyone else is down at the Supreme Court listening to a professor argue in the Irizarry case.

she's also busy checking to make sure I haven't suggested to anyone that replacing her 'a' with an 'o' is ver' funny.

::runs really far away::


Sparky1 - Apr 15, 2008 6:46:04 am PDT #1856 of 10001
Librarian Warlord

she's also busy checking to make sure I haven't suggested to anyone that replacing her 'a' with an 'o' is ver' funny.

Sux!


hippocampus - Apr 15, 2008 6:46:59 am PDT #1857 of 10001
not your mom's socks.

see. you were just sitting there waiting for that.

it's just like when we were kids, sporky.


Nutty - Apr 15, 2008 6:48:03 am PDT #1858 of 10001
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

things like Tolkien's work must have been lexicon-ified while under copyright.

I was curious about this, and from a cursory scroll through Wikipedia, it looks like there haven't been any print lexicons. Online, quite a few encyclopedias, but print has all been (a) journal articles and (b) reader's guides. Of course, in Tolkien's case, it can be kind of hard to develop definitive dictionary-style information without recourse to things like private notebooks, which are under the control of his estate. (Moreso, I mean, than his published letters and canon works.)

Actually, come to think, I read an interesting essay a couple years back about Joyce scholars, and how they have to mollycoddle some grand-nephew of James Joyce (invite him to symposia and let him ramble at length; not publish anything embarrassing etc.) or else they can't get permission to quote from Joyce's works in their scholarship. And how it drove them all bananas, but that there wasn't anything they could do about it. (These weren't lexicon efforts, but the quoting issue is the same.)