Beetle and the Bard Contest at Amazon.

I've skipped to posts about which I actually have something to say!

Even though I can't even phrase this sentence in a less clumsy and clunky way. Oh, my English, you probably didn't miss your ride and you're now at some languages-marriage (creating tiny babies of slang and new words and dictionaries-happy-stuff?).

Someone gave me the Hebrew version.

At some point, it was dubbed (of course) into Hebrew, and translated. Shir - it's quite old. Probably quite older than you. If my computer here were any more youtube-friendly, or any listening-to-anything-friendly, I would look. But, alas. No can do here. I think I may even remember part of the lyrics.

Kristin, that Hebrew-Jabberwocky poem is great! Especially since all the words she used are indeed connected to one subject (the blessing you say after eating bread). Good for her!

she just doesn't think she can deal with wearing skirts all the time.

Some rabbis rule now that modest pants (not too tight, and with a cut that's specifically designed for women) are OK. Orthodox rabbis (though not the most strict ones, of course).

The whole subject of wearing pants - and ruling it to be OK with "halakha" rules - is something that's been changing a lot for the last ten years or so. Ten years ago, it was very small fractions who said it was OK. Nowadays, it's way more common.

Then she was saying she knows a woman who covers her hair, and wears pants, which she thought was interesting.

Again, it's something relatively new. The thing is, today, even if you think that pants are OK with the "halakha", wearing a skirt still carries a meaning - a sort of declaration, of somebody belonging to the more religious stream of behavior (at least in Israel, it's quite rare to find a non-religious girl wearing a skirt, or wearing it without a very revealing top, in order to indicate that she's not, of all things, religious).

So, if you want to make that declaration, even when you think that wearing pants is OK by the rules, you won't be wearing pants. But if you're married, and you cover your hair, that's a pretty big declaration of "I am religious" in and of itself. So you don't need the skirt-declaration, if you have the hair-covering-even-bigger-declaration, right? So if you think pants are OK by the rules, and you are married and cover your hair, and the declaration part is covered for you, it's OK to wear pants while covering your hair.

I don't think I ever wrote the word "declaration" so many times in one paragraph.

Thinking about it, I think pants are probably more modest, in our culture. (Leaving aside actual rules about split clothes or whatever) What say you?

In Judaism, there are two problems with pants: one is the modesty (and when the pants are long enough and not tight, then it's OK), and the other is that there's a rule that men shouldn't wear women's clothes and women shouldn't wear men's clothes. So as long as pants were strictly a men's clothing item, women were not allowed to wear them. But in the last fifty years or so, when it became common for women to wear pants as well, and there are cuts especially designed for women, which no man would ever wear - that problem is gone, too.

[Edited to wave at Shir and Jesse and Corwood and lisa and everybody else! With exclamation points!|

OMG, ita, I was totally going to respond, but then I forgot. I'm pretty sure on L&O, "felony murder" means someone died while you were committing the felony, whether or not you meant for them to die. I'm not sure if the thing about everyone being equally guilty is true, or a lie they use to break the weak team member.

ION, now I'm scared of being trapped in an elevator: [link]

Seriously, Steph, that's exactly what I thought. Also, how odd!

If the Krav car was driving behind me, I'd change lanes. That's what I'd do.

The thing is, today, even if you think that pants are OK with the "halakha", wearing a skirt still carries a meaning - a sort of declaration, of somebody belonging to the more religious stream of behavior

Oh, that's interesting. Maybe less of a thing here, since the division isn't so stark. I mean, I wear a skirt almost every day, and it's barely remarked upon.

In Judaism, there are two problems with pants: one is the modesty (and when the pants are long enough and not tight, then it's OK), and the other is that there's a rule that men shouldn't wear women's clothes and women shouldn't wear men's clothes. So as long as pants were strictly a men's clothing item, women were not allowed to wear them. But in the last fifty years or so, when it became common for women to wear pants as well, and there are cuts especially designed for women, which no man would ever wear - that problem is gone, too.

So interesting! I think what's especially interesting for me is learning what the rules actually are, because what I mostly know is how they look from the outside. I never would have thought of the man's clothes/woman's clothes thing. (Also the rules about which animals are kosher being related to characteristics, not actual animals, so you can figure out any new animal you come across. Fascinating!)

About modesty:

I always felt I was fairly modest (like Nilly would say, it's all about what you're showing - from the inside), until about two years ago, when I finished my army service and encountered with the "need real clothing for life" issue.

Being color-shade-blind and a cloth-shopping hater, I always trust few friends to come with me and make this as painless as possible. They, pretty much, dictate my "taste". And then I realized that I love tank-tops, and I don't care what Trinny and Susannah say about women with not-really-skinny-arms wearing them. I like how they look on me, and I love the cleavage.

So I'm kind of torn.

OMG, ita, I was totally going to respond, but then I forgot. I'm pretty sure on L&O, "felony murder" means someone died while you were committing the felony, whether or not you meant for them to die.

You're half right. If you intend for them to die it's straight-up murder. Felony murder is unintended.

what? I missed this, what's the question?

I'm guessing, from: ita "Natter 58: Let's call Venezuela!" Apr 13, 2008 6:24:29 pm PDT

I just finished watching the most incomprehensible episode of Cold Case. I swear not a one person's motivation made sense. Plus, they spent an awful lot of time trying to work out which of the bank robbers was the shooter that killed the teller. Don't they all go down for it? Felony murder, or something?

I'm pretty sure on L&O, "felony murder" means someone died while you were committing the felony, whether or not you meant for them to die. I'm not sure if the thing about everyone being equally guilty is true, or a lie they use to break the weak team member.

If someone dies during the commission of a felony, whether the conduct of the criminal was directly related or not, everyone who is charged with the felony can also be charged/convicted of felony murder. This is generally true whether a kidnapping victim accidentally suffocates in a trunk, a bank patron has a heart attack during a robbery, or a guard is shot during an armored car heist.

ION, now I'm scared of being trapped in an elevator: [link]

Damn. That elevator-trappage incident totally fucked up his life.

(Am now earwormed with a slow, mournful version of Aerosmith's "Love in an Elevator".... oh, and there was some '70s hit about being stuck in an elevator with someone of the opposite sex....)