It's true in LA that you have to pull as far into the intersection as possible to take the left just as the light turns yellow (and sometimes red), because no one will let you go, ever. And you need to pull up as far as you can so that you can take the dude behind you with you.

Well, the specific problem is with very busy intersections that have (a) a legal left turn but (b) no actual left turn signal (we have one such two blocks from our apt, and you can't get to any of the main cross-city arteries without using it). Very often the cross traffic is so heavy that only one or maybe two cars can make left turns at all, and then only on the yellow.

It's a huge, wide intersection (big enough that the city could take the lights out and put a small rotary in if it so desired) and there's plenty of room to come out into the intersection and wait for your chance at the (generously timed) yellow; plus, our street is a single lane in each direction with parking spaces at the corners. People too timid to pull out not only miss the signal (and usually end up missing two or three signals before traffic lightens up enough for them to feel safe), but, because there's no room for anyone else to maneuver around them, at commute hour they'll instantly turn the entire street into three blocks of parking lot.

eta: Or, she added shamefacedly, what everyone else said much more concisely.

flea. your grandparents are adorable! As are the cats!

Also, Newsies! Sante Fe. ,.

Well I guess what I am seeing in my head (and I do drive) is that the difference is about what, fifteen feet? Being too timid to make the left when you can, yeah, that's annoying. But if they had only pulled forward that couple car lengths they would have made the turn? That's what I'm having trouble with. If it is a very busy intersection I could see calculating that you would have enough time to pull into the intersection when possible rather than risking getting t-boned because you couldn't turn until the red. FWIW I always pull into the intersection but I just disagree that there's something wrong with people who drive like they don't want to get hit by another car.

But if they had only pulled forward that couple car lengths they would have made the turn? That's what I'm having trouble with.

Dunno about other states, but that's pretty much just how it is in most of California. The lights are often timed for a longish yellow and a second or so where it's red in both directions so the stragglers have at least a smidge of time to clear out before the cross traffic starts.

The downside of which is that if it's too busy and you are too rigidly law-abiding, neither you nor anyone behind you ever moves again.

It's true in LA that you have to pull as far into the intersection as possible to take the left just as the light turns yellow (and sometimes red), because no one will let you go, ever.

In Boston, this is grounds for an Early Green Left, i.e., as soon as the light turns green (in the absence of a specific left-turn arrow), if you are the first car in line, take your left before the guy coming straight the other way has the opportunity to get in your way.

It's flagrantly illegal and, in some places, absolutely necessary. 2-3 cars will do it at a time, at every green in that intersection, and for years before the city managers get around to installing a light with a left-turn arrow.

But if they had only pulled forward that couple car lengths they would have made the turn? That's what I'm having trouble with.

Huh? They kind of have to, because otherwise they're blocking the intersection and the traffic from the other direction.

And you need to pull up as far as you can so that you can take the dude behind you with you.

I do this. And, when I do, I give a little glance in the rearview as if to say, "You and me buddy. You and me."

I don't know how else to describe it bon, except to say that the intersections out here are designed so that there's an indeterminate space in the middle of the intersection that allows traffic behind to go around you (if it's one lane and they're not turning) but does not put you into the line of oncoming traffic.

It can be anxiety provoking if you're not used to it, but if you're simply sitting at the greenlight waiting for your chance to take a left turn, you're backing up traffic severely behind you for blocks. The flow of traffic depends on you getting up into the intersection - just not into the lane of oncoming traffic.

My driver's ed teacher taught us to do left turns as Hec describes. Sometimes I still hear Coach Dickinson saying, "Creep to the point of no return" as I edge out into the neutral zone.