That script was definitely much better than what we saw for episode one. I wonder what FOX didn't like about it? Not that anyone here has the answer, but it's definitely what I'm wondering! I would have enjoyed that much more than the iffy hostage negotiator crap we got.

ETA: Except that maybe Joss got pissed and said "if they want crap, I give them crap and then I get paid for seven episodes that never get aired."

Ailleann - Eliza has a talent holding deal at FOX. They definitely want to play on the sex factor of Eliza. And so does she. She did an aborted pilot for them under the deal last year called 'Nurses', I think the basic premise was Eliza! Is! Hot! Random note - according to Joss, Eliza bought the aspect of sexuality and fetishes to the Dollhouse table.

I don't think FOX are entirely to blame for the new pilot. You know, Joss wrote Ghost. Some of FOX's objections have made it online - for one, they wanted the sex discussion toned down, sexiness turned up, thrillerness and action up also. Also, "Echo" (the original pilot) is a bit confusing for new watchers. Which everybody would be.

Amusingly, it opens with Eliza helping somebody get over addiction. Eliza was an alcoholic until recently (according to her in an interview the other day) so it was probably a bit of a deliberate opening.

As for the rape thing, I'm not even going to go there. I'm not watching the show because I like the idea of rape. I didn't watch The Inside because I like sociopathic sexual abuse etc.

Joss' Original Dollhouse script

Compare and contrast the show he intended to do with what Fox has on the air.

Okay, that was pretty interesting. It's a little more clear what the point of the show is. I like the conversations between Topher and Boyd. Topher is a little different in that script than he is now, more sinister and intriguing.

I think that it's interesting that they seem to think that all guys want some sort of danger junkie girl. First week had Echo racing motorcycles, this week white water rafting.

Sadly, one of my clients' husband told me pretty much exactly that recently. Why he married not!that remains a mystery.

I couldn't engage with this episode at all, save for the few moments with Boyd. He is clearly the heart of the endeavor, not to mention a much better actor than pretty much anyone else.

The idea that this sooper sekrit, we scour personalities for big bucks, organization would NOT recognize sociopathic tendancies is just, whuhuh?

They considered him a risk at all, much less 'medium' level and said, in essence, "SHUR, take our priceless asset and put her at risk...but it's gonna costya!" Just reeks. As if the higher deposit would mean anything to anyone engaged in that kind of commerce in the first place.

Now, if the guy who 'rented' the doll was a pasty for a pscyhopath, I could, in a way, hang with it. But, 'oops, I guess we didn't look closely enough AFTER THE FACT?" Really?

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I have enjoyed my share of exploitive genre films but sooth myself with the notion that they don't expect me to take them seriously. The 'let's show you how bad something is by tittilating youoe with it' storytelling has me lined up right behind ita and Tep.

I'll wait to see next weeks comments here before devoting anymore time the 'house.

As for the rape thing, I'm not even going to go there.

You're already there. Whether you enjoy it or not, if you watch the show, you are watching the character be raped. That's Tep's point, and she's not wrong.

That there are other interesting things going on, to do with identity and everything else, is true. But it doesn't make it less rape merely because 18 months ago Caroline signed a piece of paper. Consent doesn't work like that.

I'm pretty sure Joss is aware of this; I'm also pretty sure the network isn't, and a good chunk of the audience isn't, either.

I think the network as likely does know and doesn't care.

I watched Tim rape some dude on The Inside, though, under that definition. I don't care. I'm not sat thinking "WOW, RAPE IS AWESOME! I WANT THAT FOR XMAS!".

I think the network as likely does know and doesn't care.

Yeah, or at least some of them understand it is. Network's not a monolith anymore than a production company is.

I'm pretty sure Joss is aware of this;

But here's the thing; because he made a show that turned the trope of tiny-blonde-girl-in-alley-faces-monsters upside down, he got heralded as a champion of feminism.

Pretty sure it's nowhere even NEAR feminism for an overeducated, articulate white man to appropriate sexual violence which is perpetrated mostly against women, and use it to tell a fucking story.

Gah. It just makes me more and more angry the more I think about it.

And before anyone tells me to just stop posting about it if it makes me so angry, the reason I'm angry is that Joss has been better than this. He can be better than this, and I fell in love with his storytelling when it was better than this. So it's utterly disappointing to see this happen. (Dr. Horrible managed to not rouse my feminist ire as much as it did for others, but this? Gah.)

Cogito ergo sum. But what are the beginnings of cogito and who is the sum?

Nice.

there's no good reason for a woman running for her life to randomly take off her shirt--especially when she's running through the woods

Except that losing the white-ish shirt made her a slightly less visible target.