Thanks Steph for being more articulate than I. All I can say at this point is, why would I want to watch this?

I'm starting to have a hard time believing this is the same Joss Whedon responsible for the first 4 seasons of Buffy. (I have issues with a lot of S5-7. It's a thing.) And for Zoe (hey, I wasn't crazy about Firefly, but I recognize a kickass character when I see one).

Man. I so wanted this show to be good, and the sad thing is that I can see where it could have been. But when your premise is that mindwiping and whoring out women is wrong -- which you demonstrate by mindwiping and whoring them out week after week -- UR DOIN IT WRONG.

Oh, Joss. I can go with the human trafficking, but does the pathetically pining next door neighbor really have to be the only curvy/fuller figured/"normal"-sized woman on the show? Really??

Funny, none of that occurred to me. I just thought Not!Helo was stupid for ignoring the hot woman next door.

But when your premise is that mindwiping and whoring out women is wrong -- which you demonstrate by mindwiping and whoring them out week after week -- UR DOIN IT WRONG.

Errr ... it's kind of the premise of the show. If they did away with it in the second episode, the show would kind of be over.

But I don't entirely buy that that the show is about how mindwiping and whoring are wrong. I think they're the wrongs that are taken as the given of the show.

Moreover ...

Joss, the irony of using a show about mindwiped whores to make a statement on the treatment of....what? Actresses? Is no longer ironic. You don't get to use rape as a metaphor.

I don't think this is what's happening, either. Again, the horrid things are the context of the show, not the subject. The subject is identity, and about whether it can be completely suppressed, erased or overwritten. About whether we are our memories, or lack of them. All very Phillip K. Dick, I'm sure.

I have to admit, I was weak on the first episode, but I thought this one was head-and-shoulders above the first. I'm happy to learn some back story, and I think there's plenty of potential laid out here worth exploring.

To tell the truth, last week I was concerned that it would be impossible for Echo's character to plausibly progress, but I'm now a lot less worried about that. I like the idea that who she really is isn't so easily eradicated.

I'm not as in love with it as I was with, oh, "Buffy," "Angel," "Firefly" or "Drive," but I'm definitely more interested than I was last week.

(Also, I thought Eliza was much better this week time around. I really thought she was on.)

What Victor said. Although I get Tep's reservations. Although I think she's going to be security next week, so it will be less with the rape subtext. But it's REALLY hard to gross me out on a procedural basis, so ymmv.

I agree with Victor too. I can understand why the subject matter is upsetting to some people, but it doesn't really get to me when the bad guys do horrible, awful things, and I am even more intrigued by AA's character this week.

Although I get Tep's reservations.

Oh, completely. Joss and co. have taken on a lot to chew, here, and I'm still not completely sold on it. But ultimately, it's what happens with Echo that proves whether the artistic risk of the show's premise was worthwhile, and the jury's still out on that one. Way too early to tell.

At least the main characters weren't the worst people on the show this week, which is kind of how I felt last time.

At least the main characters weren't the worst people on the show this week, which is kind of how I felt last time.

Yeah, although the only one I actively like so far is Langton. Which is an improvement over last week.

Like I said, I'm a Lehane fan, so really hard to gross out. And then, there was the season of "The Wire" where nobody cared about the cans of dead hookers...I'm not your mama's women's studies alum and I'm aware of that.

Yeah, erika. I don't really mind if everyone is terrible, as long as there's something compelling about the main characters. Which can still be terrible -- Bubba Rogowski, anyone?