While I knew the entered the program somewhat willingly, I had also thought they submitted themselves to the mindwipes willingly as part of the agreement. But that's not the case. There appears to be an implanted suggestion that they come back for "treatment," but they have no idea they're about to essentially kill their selves.

P-C, can you elaborate? I don't get this. It seemed pretty clear that when the Actives sign up, they know they're going to be mindwiped. The imprinted personalities don't know they're going to be zapped away, but that's not the same thing.

Allyson, the pitch of Dollhouse is a young woman becoming self aware and fighting those who put her in that position. Well, that's the idea.

Doesn't matter what the pitch is if it doesn't come off that way.

Hmm. I think Dollhouse did a better job of "these are my people, this is my vibe" than Lie To Me, whose pilot I found a vague mess, and which I pretty much only keep watching because of its lead.

Dollhouse has more of a personality, and had teasers decently placed for future intrigue.

The make or break for me will be the nature of the missions. They could easily turn too icky for me.

I can't think of many really satisfactory ways to deal with this. Maybe classic victim revenge horror fantasy where all the dolls realize what is going on, kill all people running the dollhouse (including their handlers) and use the computer files to track down the owners and all the customers and kill them,

You know what, though? The premise -- secret organization that delivers mind-wiped perfectly programmed fantasy "dolls" -- along with however it gets resolved (revenge fantasy, FBI busting them, whatever) would make a good episode of some other TV show. One episode. Not a season(s)-long episodic story.

Doesn't matter what the pitch is if it doesn't come off that way.

I'd like to read the original pilot. I was surprised at how precarious their tech already seemed (Echo can just walk into procedure rooms? They don't check and see if they're imprinting her with a suicide? That place runs on luck.) but I can't imagine them covering enough ground in one episode to deal with the whole premise--her gaining awareness and fighting back all in that 40-odd minutes. (eta: and keep going for a series)

The cracks are bigger than I expected them to be this early on.

The premise -- secret organization that delivers mind-wiped perfectly programmed fantasy "dolls" -- along with however it gets resolved (revenge fantasy, FBI busting them, whatever) would make a good episode of some other TV show. One episode. Not a season(s)-long episodic story.

Teppy I think you just focused laser like on the core of the problem. One episode, or a movie (even a long movie) this could be handled well in dozens of way. Having a series that focuses episode after episode of the dolls being slave-traded is different no matter how it ends.

I was surprised at how precarious their tech already seemed

Like, they don't have interoffice PHONES? Handler!guy had to do the dramatic run down the hall to stop Tech!nerd from mindwiping Echo?

(Also, in the early scene when Tech!nerd was -- cleaning(?) -- the backup tape thingie after mindwiping adrenaline-junkie!Echo, all I could think of was Ghostbusters and "The light is green; the trap is clean.")

I know the "cutting-edge science in a house full of hot chicks" line is troubling (although I've read it as more of a joke [and I think it was written as one],

Yeah, "I get to play mad scientist surrounded by model-pretty poontang without any of that troublesome personality or ability to say no!"—what a knee-slapper. They should take that one on the road to comedy clubs.

Sorry, but they could have featured 42 minutes of that guy feeding the homeless and I'd still loathe him on sight after seeing the promo.

I think I'm correct in saying that line has been cut from the show completely. It was removed from the Upfronts trailer due to negative reaction online, but then made a return in the TV spots campaign.

If so, it's an ass-backwards decision on the part of the network. I think it would be far less damaging to them as a single moment on the part of one skeevy character in the context of the show than as the tagline to a promo that's trying to present the public face of the whole series.

It's like Fox saying "Hey leering misogynists—have we got the show for you!"

I liked the show more than not. The early line "you ever clean a slate?.." was a nice antidote to the cliched dialogue of SCC. The Eliza/Summer promos were awful. I couldn't help feeling like Summer especially Did Not Want to be doing them. D cheered at the Grr Argh monster.

I won't be surprised if the show is cancelled before the vote on opening a new thread is final.