What I didn't get from the premise and the promos was the amount of free will the Actives have. While I knew the entered the program somewhat willingly, I had also thought they submitted themselves to the mindwipes willingly as part of the agreement. But that's not the case. There appears to be an implanted suggestion that they come back for "treatment," but they have no idea they're about to essentially kill their selves.

We gave up nineteen minutes in. It seemed weirdly sloppy to me, as if he went into it figuring that the only audience who would watch were people who already knew the premise and his history with other shows.

It seems like a fantastic premise for a porno movie with high production values, like Pirates.

However, it did make me really nostalgic for Buffy and Angel, so I could remember that these people? Are capable of writing/acting/directing the shit out of an episode of television.

When i look at the set-ups of Lie to Me and Leverage, they were so pitch perfect at introducing a cast and a premise. That's how it's done. This? Total mess. Throwing as much shit at the wall to see what sticks. It's frustrating.

I mean, Buffy was exploited heavily, by her watcher, by the Watcher's Council, and we saw this wonderful journey of a young woman becoming self-aware. That was pretty fucking awesome.

This is just porn. Straight up.

I wasn't too thrilled with "the new moon has made her a virgin again", or whatever that line was. Mindwipe does not equal sexual purity.

It's from Tennesee Williams' play Camino Real, the prostitute character Esmeralda says, "I never remember what happened before the moonrise makes me a virgin."

At least, I hope that's what Joss had in mind.

Sparky, I think he's commented on that somewhere (to confirm).

The ratings aren't actually that bad, looking at it. They won the key demos they wanted. Also, it doubled it's female viewership over Terminator.

Allyson, the pitch of Dollhouse is a young woman becoming self aware and fighting those who put her in that position. Well, that's the idea.

I don't think it is straight porn, but it is disappointing. The writing so far seems mediocre at best, and even omitting the promos, the gender issues are huge. (Don't think you can blame the show for the promo's; showrunner does not control those.)

Every now and then an op-ed columnist or a blogger will start a piece "this will make a lot of people angry". And then get very indignant when a lot of people do in fact get angry. "Gee I said that punching you in the snout might make you angry. So aren't you the silly over-reactor for actually getting mad when I actually punch you in the snout."

The same thing with the gender issues in this. The fact that Joss anticipated that people would notice his weird gender issues does not make them disappear. The framing of this show lets him write about human trafficking mainly from the point of view of the traffickers, and from trafficked people who (thanks to brain washing) don't actually object.

The fact that the show understands on some level that this is problematic, that some of the human traffickers have a troubled conscience does not really deal with the problem.

I can't think of many really satisfactory ways to deal with this. Maybe classic victim revenge horror fantasy where all the dolls realize what is going on, kill all people running the dollhouse (including their handlers) and use the computer files to track down the owners and all the customers and kill them.

Now I'm not saying my suggestion is particularly good writing. I'm not a long form fiction writer. But this is squicky at a visceral level, and to me it could only be justified by an equally visceral response. And so far I don't see the premise as particularly well written either.

While I knew the entered the program somewhat willingly, I had also thought they submitted themselves to the mindwipes willingly as part of the agreement. But that's not the case. There appears to be an implanted suggestion that they come back for "treatment," but they have no idea they're about to essentially kill their selves.

P-C, can you elaborate? I don't get this. It seemed pretty clear that when the Actives sign up, they know they're going to be mindwiped. The imprinted personalities don't know they're going to be zapped away, but that's not the same thing.

Allyson, the pitch of Dollhouse is a young woman becoming self aware and fighting those who put her in that position. Well, that's the idea.

Doesn't matter what the pitch is if it doesn't come off that way.

Hmm. I think Dollhouse did a better job of "these are my people, this is my vibe" than Lie To Me, whose pilot I found a vague mess, and which I pretty much only keep watching because of its lead.

Dollhouse has more of a personality, and had teasers decently placed for future intrigue.

The make or break for me will be the nature of the missions. They could easily turn too icky for me.

I can't think of many really satisfactory ways to deal with this. Maybe classic victim revenge horror fantasy where all the dolls realize what is going on, kill all people running the dollhouse (including their handlers) and use the computer files to track down the owners and all the customers and kill them,

You know what, though? The premise -- secret organization that delivers mind-wiped perfectly programmed fantasy "dolls" -- along with however it gets resolved (revenge fantasy, FBI busting them, whatever) would make a good episode of some other TV show. One episode. Not a season(s)-long episodic story.

Doesn't matter what the pitch is if it doesn't come off that way.

I'd like to read the original pilot. I was surprised at how precarious their tech already seemed (Echo can just walk into procedure rooms? They don't check and see if they're imprinting her with a suicide? That place runs on luck.) but I can't imagine them covering enough ground in one episode to deal with the whole premise--her gaining awareness and fighting back all in that 40-odd minutes. (eta: and keep going for a series)

The cracks are bigger than I expected them to be this early on.

The premise -- secret organization that delivers mind-wiped perfectly programmed fantasy "dolls" -- along with however it gets resolved (revenge fantasy, FBI busting them, whatever) would make a good episode of some other TV show. One episode. Not a season(s)-long episodic story.

Teppy I think you just focused laser like on the core of the problem. One episode, or a movie (even a long movie) this could be handled well in dozens of way. Having a series that focuses episode after episode of the dolls being slave-traded is different no matter how it ends.