I end up in such weird places, shipper-wise. I'm never in tune with anyone else. Since I didn't start watching Buffy until after Angel premiered (which I started watching because of dear, departed Glenn Quinn), I had no emotional investment in Buffy/Angel. I could care less. I did, however, hate the thought of Angel/Cordy because the writers completely mucked that up-- all through S2 of Angel, they'd been weaving the threads together for a really lovely return to Cordy/Wes and then they completely went off course. (I will say, however, I adored morally!ambiguous! Wes with Lilah).

Which is a roundabout way of saying, I never got into the whole Rose/Doctor thing. I didn't start rewatching Who with any regularity until partway through S3-- the times I saw Rose and of course, then with Martha, there was just too much hero worship going on. There's already an inherent imbalance going on, what with him being a Time Lord-- no need to make it worse. Which is why Donna was just the absolute perfect companion. She was in awe of what he was able to show her, the things he was able to do, but she was never in awe of him. She was the closest thing to an equal that I think he encountered (outside of perhaps River Song, but we don't really know enough about her).

At the same time, however, I can't see them as a "couple." Companions, yes--they were splendid that way-- she completed him and was his human side moreso than Rose or Martha-- but it couldn't have gone on forever because the Doctor knows it ultimately wouldn't have fulfilled her. She deserves to have a real life.

I think, in a way, losing Donna is ultimately more heartbreaking to him than losing Rose.

I'd like to see what I can do with a Donna coming into her own without the Doctor's influence.

Isn't this what Turn Left was about?

I thought Turn Left was a very clever foreshadowing of what would her fate would be. It's comforting, in a way. She really *doesn't* need the Doctor to be brave and caring and empathetic and full of humor and courage. She made hard choices and sacrificed herself, never having met the Doctor, only this crazy woman who said that there was a chance for a better world.

But not as much as she'll ever be alive, with the Doctor.

Remind me again, why did he say not to say anything to her, after getting her back home? Because to me, take away from her the hope that she can be someone better is horrible.

I honestly do not agree with this. I really believe that she has the inherent character to be awesome with or without that skinny spaceman. She IS ALREADY "someone better."

But to answer your question, the Doctor's reasoning to keep this entirely from her was because any memory of it would trigger the life-ending brain 'splosion that he was trying to save her from.

Have you had the opportunity to see any of the Children In Need mini-specials?

Eh, I think not. I saw something like this on the YouTubes, but always ignored it. Should I not?

I'd love for you to do a watch-and-post

I'd love to do so myself, but I'll have to get the Old Who first.

too much hero worship going on

Yes, this, too. But somehow, since I myself have a crush on him, I don't care about this side of the Doctor that much. Though, at some point, I thought it would be great to see a companion who isn't totally in love with the Doctor from the first moment.

She made hard choices and sacrificed herself, never having met the Doctor, only this crazy woman who said that there was a chance for a better world.

I'm thinking Giles, at The Wish, when Anyanka asks him why he thinks the other world is such a great place. He replies "because it has to be", or something like that, and I watched it as one of the most powerful moments of BtVS. Because really, how can he know such a thing? I don't know if we, as humans, have this need for believing in something bigger, shinier, better versions of ourselves and the world, but I know I long for better. For things I never experienced myself. So... it's in there. Somewhere.

She IS ALREADY "someone better."

I don't question Donna's quality. But she herself, even with the life-ending brain 'splosion, wanted to stay with him, as is. She was having fun.

So, in a way, I'm glad the season ended with Donna seems to be having fun, with or without the Doctor.

I saw something like this on the YouTubes, but always ignored it. Should I not?

They should definitely be seen. They are just a few minutes long, in between official seasons, little moments that add to the canon of the official seasons. There is one where Tennant's Doctor interacts with an earlier Doctor - and for just a few moments the Tenth Doctor speaks for all the fans, and especially for Tennant himself.

the times I saw Rose and of course, then with Martha, there was just too much hero worship going on. There's already an inherent imbalance going on, what with him being a Time Lord-- no need to make it worse. Which is why Donna was just the absolute perfect companion. She was in awe of what he was able to show her, the things he was able to do, but she was never in awe of him.

De-lurking to say - I feel the exact same way about Rose and the Doctor. I think this is really shown in the Stolen Earth and Journey's End with the repeated dialog about all of his companions being his "children". I have no problem with Rose getting the 10.5 version, because I can't picture the real Doctor and Rose ever having a sexual relationship (which I think she wanted). It's just too much like a father/daughter thing for me. But DT managed to make 10.5 seem very young and very different - so when he kissed her, it didn't squick me out (which I think it would have with the Doctor Doctor).

I think, in a way, losing Donna is ultimately more heartbreaking to him than losing Rose.

Yeah - I think the Doctor always kind of expected to lose Rose, it was just too perfect and too magical. But he had a sort of bickering brother/sister relationship with Donna that was very earth-bound. It's one thing to accept the fact that you can't have a romantic relationship, it's another thing to know that your friendships are probably doomed too. Poor guy. I still kind of hate him for erasing her memories, though.

Watched Caprica this morning. Vague non-spoilery comments. I liked it enough to be interested in seeing more. It has an unique feel to it. At times it felt like 50s spy/cop drama, then 60s psychedelic sci-fi, with the music of a BSG feel. I am very interested in the story to follow this setup. Nothing bugged any more than the usual handwavium required with the science stuff.

The Children in Need specials since 2005 have been canon, which is not necessarily so before then.

I can't picture the real Doctor and Rose ever having a sexual relationship

I certainly could when Captain Jack was around the first time. But that was Nine, not Ten which makes a big difference.

I certainly could when Captain Jack was around the first time. But that was Nine, not Ten which makes a big difference.

When Captain Jack's around it is easy to imagine anyone having a night of pleasure with just about anyone else, particularly Captain Jack.

When Captain Jack's around it is easy to imagine anyone having a night of pleasure with just about anyone else, particularly Captain Jack.

Amen.

In fact, wasn't it Donna who was telling Captain Jack he could hug her? No, really, he could?