River: I didn't think you'd come for me. Simon: Well, you're a dummy.

'Serenity'


Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon  

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


Steph L. - Dec 08, 2015 5:28:58 pm PST #28899 of 30001
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

Wentworth Miller is a goddamn national treasure. Though I am sad no one explicitly used the phrase "prison break."

The actor who plays Jay Garrick reminds me of Ben Browder a little bit. I finally figured it out tonight.


Polter-Cow - Dec 08, 2015 9:41:05 pm PST #28900 of 30001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

iZombie

Oh no!

Oh no, part two!

OH NO PART THREE!!!


DCJensen - Dec 08, 2015 10:45:42 pm PST #28901 of 30001
All is well that ends in pizza.

wrong thread


Tom Scola - Dec 09, 2015 1:29:03 am PST #28902 of 30001
Mr. Scola’s wardrobe by Botany 500

I’m really getting tired of the science trolling on The Flash, though.

And I’m way, way behind on iZombie. I need to fix that.


billytea - Dec 09, 2015 3:41:01 am PST #28903 of 30001
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Ok, Doctor Who,season finale: as with Heaven Sent, the more I think about Hell Bent, the more I like it. I love the diner scenes, and how their significance changes as more of the story is revealed. (plus, Tardis diner. The diner at the start of The Impossible Astronaut was a Tardis. I kind of love that this episode sees the return of Gallifrey, but it steadfastly refuses to make itself about the return of Gallifrey. I mean, the biggest element in the mythology of the new series has been the Time War and the disappearance of the Time Lords. Day of the Doctor's only duff note (for me) was the massive retcon to what the series said the Time Lords had become; and here's the payoff to all that. And the episode just swallows it completely and says "no, the character work is actually what's important here." Actually, the fact they took two years and treated it as casually as they did (insofar as torturing the Doctor for 4.5 billion years to get there may be deemed casual) makes me better disposed to the original retcon.

This could be Steven Moffat's most feminist-aware work to date. One jarring note, when the General regenerates, Moffat can't let go of the gender essentialism: "The only time I’ve been a man, that last body. Dear lord, how do you cope with all that ego?" But against that, we have an onscreen gender swapping regeneration. We have it ending with Clara and Me Doctoring it up through all of time and space.

And then there's the critique of what happened to Donna, when the Doctor wiped her memory, against her wishes. That's a problematic moment to me. Donna hadn't had the time to process what the Doctor was telling her. I can't really read her refusal as "I'd rather die". Possibly "There must be another way". Possibly nothing well-formed at all. But he still clearly didn't consider her wishes, or perhaps more precisely that she could have wishes that he should consider. (And if she didn't have time to process, it's largely because he didn't bring it up sooner.)

This time around is so much better. Clara has agency, she takes action to protect her memory. The Doctor listens to her. They agree together to put the both of them at risk. And Clara keeps her memories; the Doctor loses. (Though I have some other thoughts on that.) It doesn't make amends; but the Doctor explicitly acknowledges it as penance for breaking his own rules. I would like to think he includes Donna in that.

Oh, also: when he realises, he gives Clara advice. It's advice on how to be the Doctor. And compare it to Flatline:

"Congratulations. Lying is a vital survival skill. ...And a terrible habit."
"Clara, this is a vital stage. This little group is currently confused and disorientated. But pretty soon a leader is going to emerge. You need to make sure that leader is you."
"Lie to them. Give them hope. Tell them they’re all going to be fine. Isn’t that what you would do?"
"You were an exceptional Doctor, Clara. Goodness had nothing to do with it."

Then, it was all how to win. His advice now:

"Run like hell because you always need to. Laugh at everything, because it’s always funny. Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends."

Goodness has everything to do with it.


billytea - Dec 09, 2015 3:41:02 am PST #28904 of 30001
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Stray thoughts:

Capaldi and Coleman are just superb.

In the past week before Hell Bent, I rewatched Heaven Sent, Day of the Doctor and the Deadly Assassin just for good measure.

The Doctor is improving his skills. It took six words to bring down the government of Harriet Jones; here, he overthrows Rassilon himself with only four. (I credit the eyebrows.)

I am adopting the interpretation that the memory wipe didn't work on either of them. That the Doctor realised this was the only way to break the cycle, and so he faked it. When he sees Clara's picture on the Tardis after talking to her, there are emotions going on, but (to me at least) surprise and shock weren't among them. What I like about this reading is that it echoes their farewell in Death in Heaven - they have to lie to each other to be able to say goodbye.

By the same token, I see in Clara's decision to 'take the long way round' to Gallifrey some echoes of her decision at the end of "Mummy on the Orient Express". In both cases she'd resolved to do the responsible thing, and that - one way or another - her adventures were over. And then she has a sudden, and somewhat reckless, change of heart, because she's just not ready to give it all up quite yet. (Though this one doesn't feel as unhealthy as last season's.)

I kind of love the realisation of the Matrix. "The Time Lords have got a big computer made of ghosts in a crypt guarded by more ghosts." Gallifrey benefits greatly from a hefty dose of Gormenghast, I think. Another reason I'm more comfortable with the retcon - this new vision of Gallifrey looks like there are stories worth telling there.

I feel there's a lot to be said about Gallifreyan technology, and its relation between the mechanical and the organic. (Also why the Sixth Doctor's arc failed, and the Twelfth's succeeded.)


Kalshane - Dec 09, 2015 5:58:49 am PST #28905 of 30001
GS: If you had to choose between kicking evil in the head or the behind, which would you choose, and why? Minsc: I'm not sure I understand the question. I have two feet, do I not? You do not take a small plate when the feast of evil welcomes seconds.

I was with Cisco on the bomb thing. Even after Jay and Harry "explained" it, the one bomb going through the portal pulling the others didn't make much sense.


Steph L. - Dec 09, 2015 6:03:43 am PST #28906 of 30001
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

I was with Cisco on the bomb thing. Even after Jay and Harry "explained" it, the one bomb going through the portal pulling the others didn't make much sense.

On the scale of That's Not How [Thing] Works!, the bomb plan is just below that time Captain Cold FROZE LIGHT with his cold gun.

Unrelated to implausibility, I *loved* Joe talking shit about Green Arrow (nobody wanting an action figure of him).

I feel like the show dropped the thread of Patty shooting Wells. Surely Joe would need to explain his existence SOMEHOW.


Jessica - Dec 09, 2015 12:33:20 pm PST #28907 of 30001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

"The only time I’ve been a man, that last body. Dear lord, how do you cope with all that ego?"

And honestly, Moffat, you don't think Missy's got an ego? Or Clara, for that matter? Do you watch your own show even?


Steph L. - Dec 09, 2015 4:02:25 pm PST #28908 of 30001
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

Thanks, Arrow. Millions of people just lost the LDB game.