Flames wouldn't be eternal if they actually consumed anything.

Lilah ,'Not Fade Away'


Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon  

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


Liese S. - Mar 23, 2008 12:17:21 pm PDT #1235 of 30001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Torchwood 2.09:

Again, not a perfect solution, but I suppose it beats the alternative, at least from Jack's perspective.

Yeah. I just think, personally, it's awful. And it doesn't solve the problem of the dead guy. Which is a problem I suppose Torchwood is used to having, it's just that this time it was a dead guy tied to Our Heroes.

But it helps if I remember I'm not necessarily supposed to think of Jack and his actions as being good or right.

I had a whole rant about not ever getting to see the Big Gay Sex. I didn't post it though, did I?


§ ita § - Mar 23, 2008 12:24:17 pm PDT #1236 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I had a whole rant about not ever getting to see the Big Gay Sex. I didn't post it though, did I?

Please do...


Invisible Green - Mar 23, 2008 12:32:55 pm PDT #1237 of 30001

When they retcon, do they create false memories?

Yes! Otherwise it would just be an amnesia pill. Which it is as well. Retcon is just one of the factors.


JenP - Mar 23, 2008 12:42:50 pm PDT #1238 of 30001

Sharon Lawrence. Not Reynolds. Not sure where that came from. Sorry, Sharon Lawrence.


Liese S. - Mar 23, 2008 12:47:08 pm PDT #1239 of 30001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Please do...

I dunno if I can muster up the same head of, err, steam about it.

Something along the lines of we only ever get the Big Gay Dancing and maybe the Big Gay Kissing, but never the actual Big Gay Sex. Lots of Big Straight Sex and maybe even Big Lesbian Sex. But then we only get Big Gay Dialogue.

Where is my blushing and tentative first date? Where is my slow blossoming into trust and growing intimacy? Where is my delving into exploration and apparently innovation? And the answer is, of course, it's none of my beeswax. But it was my beeswax with Owen and whatshername and that only happened over the span of an episode. Now when there's a long, ongoing relationship, I only get to hear gossip about it.

I don't need crazy explicit sex scenes. But I got Gwen wrapped in a blanket. I got Rhys backside slapping. I got plenty of Owen. I just think it's strange that I never get any actual show don't tell about Jack & Ianto. Is the Big Gay Sex too much for the BBC?


sumi - Mar 23, 2008 1:02:12 pm PDT #1240 of 30001
Art Crawl!!!

That's rather difficult to believe. . . but you're right. Anyway, I think it all started in the office, didn't it? Sex first, dating later?

(That is my impression of the Jack/Ianto relationship.)

With the dead guy - if there was a body left (I'm not sure that there was) - they will drop in it in the river where it will be discovered later.

I suppose they had to retcon the entire catering staff and hotel staff too, didn't they?


amych - Mar 23, 2008 1:05:07 pm PDT #1241 of 30001
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

I suppose they had to retcon the entire catering staff and hotel staff too, didn't they?

Probably so, and in a sense they're harder than the guests -- with guests, all you really need is the amnesia and a well-placed "dude, you must've had a hell of a headache the next morning..." And the amnesia might be optional.


sumi - Mar 23, 2008 1:07:34 pm PDT #1242 of 30001
Art Crawl!!!

Right - the time cards would say when they punched in - but they won't remember any of it.


§ ita § - Mar 23, 2008 2:03:05 pm PDT #1243 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Is the Big Gay Sex too much for the BBC?

Quite possibly.

Honestly, I think they've done a huge amount so far--dancing back and forth between being pleased with themselves and making like it's no big deal.

I guess part of me wonders why it's all Torchwood's job. And another part suggests that for all we know, the BBC is showing Big Gay Sex on all their other shows.

Are they being faulted for not doing enough because they are doing some? If Jack was straight, would this come up?


Liese S. - Mar 23, 2008 3:47:10 pm PDT #1244 of 30001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

No, you're right. It's good that we're getting what we are. It's really rare to see a gay relationship played straight, as it were, not for laughs or for awkwardness. Kinda like seeing a happy married relationship.

I just finished reading a book by a popular author where the premise relied on both the characters and the readers having a certain expected homophobia. I'm really glad to have a television show where I'm not being expected to react poorly to the depiction of a gay relationship.

It's just...would it be so bad to show a hand on a bare shoulder from time to time? You know. That's all I'm saying. It's weird.