Why is silver the toxic metal for vampires? Why not gold, which is the metal of the sun? Silver represents the moon, which controls werewolves, so that makes sense.

"What do you mean, silver doesn't bother you?" "Sorry, it's weird, I know. Tungsten, now, that's a bitch."

I'm coming in a bit late in this conversation and I don't know if anyone has mentioned Ultraviolet the TV show not the movie.

The show had a few interesting concepts and plays on the no reflection thing to the point of no recordings at all, on video or through phones and the people fighting them use carbon bullets (since the carbon is wood based).

Currently I'm reading a book called Soulless (I'm blanking on the author) it's a alternate history kinda steampunk story set in Victorian times about a half - Italian spinster with no soul. Her lack of soul doesn't inheriently make her evil, the back story is that she taught her self a code of ethics. But her lack of a soul means that she is immune to supernatural creatures, to the point where vampires lose their fangs if they try to attract her.

The story also introduces vampire and werewolf concepts I hadn't seen before and I'm not sure I find that appealling. One is that it's very hard for anyone to be turned and so the largest wolf pack only has 11 members. Also werewolves can only eat raw meat, can't go out in the daylight (unless they are very old). It's very very hard for anyone to be turned to either a vampire or a werewolf so they are only 11 werewolves in the largest pack and the hive of vampires is much smaller. Also only female vampires can turn humans and it's the excess of soul the let's someone survive the change.

In a way it weakens the power of both vampires and werewolves but it does allow for them to be more integrated into the proper Victorian Society.

"Well... I've been testing that blood sample quite extensively, and it turns out to be a magical virus."

Well hopefully someone will have the mitochlorians to stop them.

Yeah, when they referred to vampirism being caused by a virus in Blade II I was thinking to myself "Riiight. A virus that makes people and their clothes disintegrate into glowing ashes if they're struck through the heart with silver. Exactly how does that little mutation work?"

Scientific disease premise works fine for versions of vampirism that just include bloodlust, longevity, and maybe enhanced strength and recuperative abilities within reason, but once you're defying the laws of physics it's still magic regardless of who spouts technobabble about it.

it was clearly a new kind of Zombie mythology. And yeah Zombie started as a religous mythic thing

[...]

And vampires and werewolves did not start out as a disease

Then what did you mean by this, TB:

Vampirism as or being a werewolf (or even zombie) as a disease are not new

a virus that brings people back from the dead, gives them a very specific form of insanity and superpowers is pretty much indistinguishable from magic

I disagree. I think it's about the world they inhabit. For instance, a disease vampire or zombie is more likely to inhabit a world that doesn't have other weird beasts in it, or any spells or amulets. There are more likely to be attempts to rationalise weaknesses, and less likely for religion to be a factor in defense. Also, cures are going to come from a guy in a white coat, not someone chanting. There are bleeds between SF and fantasy, obviously, but I think that Ultraviolet the movie was SF vampires, trying to be scientific, whereas Buffy was fantasy.

Askye, a friend left me her copy of Souless before she went on vacation with orders that I HAD to read it. Any good?

sj-- so far something happened right off the bat but now there's build up to trying to figure out what is going on. I like the main character, but in ways it seems that it's more of a second novel in a series because information is coming in bits and pieces. Also it seems that vampires and werewolves are known to the general public but there are stil things that are going on that are secret and I'm a bit fuzzy on what the line is. Maybe because I'm reading it haphazard.

But over all it's good. And the cover picture reminds me of JZ a bit which is one reason I picked up the book.

What did you mean...

No contradiction. Vampires and Werewolves started out as myth, legend and fantasy. But trying to put a scientific spin on them is not new as in 20th or 21st century. The attempt to fit them into a scientific viewpoint goes back to the 19th century. Even Van Helsing was supposed to be a scientists. It is just that the objective phenomenon he observed included the Eurachrist sealing tombs against the return of the unhallowed walking dead, and crucifixes repelling vampires.

As to your other point: I think you make an important observation as to the "feel" of the story. Nonetheless, vampire as virus caused when associated with most of the traditional vampire powers is patter. It is Eureka level science "science fiction" or worse. I concede that a lot of SF has such awful science that it is science fiction only in the sense of story telling style and not in the sense of being actually plausible science. I think because of the mythic and horror roots of the concept t it raises my eyebrows more when attempts are made to explain vampires and werewolves scientifically. I either want them left as straight fantasy or if done as science fiction then find some way to make them plausible. (And yeah the former is a lot easier than latter.)

Of course I guess the explanation could always be. "I've figured it out! I know exactly how the vampire virus works, and why it confers such amazing powers. It is just a matter of Arrgh gurgle ...."

Vampires and Werewolves started out as myth, legend and fantasy. But trying to put a scientific spin on them is not new as in 20th or 21st century

But it is new in relation to the age of the myths. And it's gotten more scientific as time goes on. Not exclusively, but in instances.

I have to admit I can't think of any attempts to handle werewolves scientifically, perhaps because of the more massive physical transformation involved.

Theoretically Sanctuary attempts to do so, but there are all sorts of physics-defying feats there that are handwaved away as being due to weird genetics.

I guess the creatures in the Underworld movies are supposed to be non-supernatural as well, but again exactly where do the shapeshifting genes get the extra 70kg or so of mass that are added on by the transformations? Are Lycans really like giant hairy ballons that are hollow inside?