I've really got to learn to just do the damage and get out of town. It's the 'stay and gloat' that gets me every time.

Ethan Rayne ,'Potential'


Natter 56: ...we need the writers.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Lee - Feb 02, 2008 9:12:48 pm PST #6993 of 10001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

Kat, I'm sorry about your sister, and Noah's projectile vomiting.

The Obama video was amazing.

Aurelia's earworm just made me snort.


Kat - Feb 02, 2008 9:16:25 pm PST #6994 of 10001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

I don't want somebody going into the White House making new and exciting mistakes because they don't have a grip on the vagaries of foreign policy or freakin' health care plans.

A while back the NYT magazine ran a great article on Obama and what struck me most was this part that talked about support that Obama has from former

In mainstream foreign-policy circles, Barack Obama is seen as the true bearer of this vision. “There are maybe 200 people on the Democratic side who think about foreign policy for a living,” as one such figure, himself unaffiliated with a campaign, estimates. “The vast majority have thrown in their lot with Obama.” Hillary Clinton’s inner circle consists of the senior-most figures from her husband’s second term in office — the former secretary of state Madeleine Albright, the former national security adviser Sandy Berger and the former United Nations ambassador Richard Holbrooke. But drill down into one of Washington’s foreign-policy hives, whether the Carnegie Endowment or the Brookings Institution or Georgetown University, and you’re bound to hit Obama supporters. Most of them served in the Clinton administration, too, and thus might be expected to support Hillary Clinton. But many of these younger and generally more liberal figures have decamped to Obama. And they are ardent. As Ivo Daalder, a former National Security Council official under President Clinton who now heads up a team advising Obama on nonproliferation issues, puts it, “There’s a feeling that this is a guy who’s going to help us transform the way America deals with the world.” Ex-Clintonites in Obama’s inner circle also include the president’s former lawyer, Greg Craig, and Richard Danzig, his Navy secretary.

The first of the Clinton people to notice this rising political star was Anthony Lake, national-security adviser in Bill Clinton’s first term. Lake says that he was introduced to Obama in 2002 when the latter had just begun considering a run for a Senate seat. Impressed, he began contributing ideas. When Obama came to Washington as a senator and joined the Foreign Relations Committee, Lake continued to work with him on occasion. Like others, Lake was impressed not so much by Obama’s policy prescriptions as by his temperament and intellectual habits. “He has,” Lake says, “the kind of mind that works its way through complexities by listening and giving some edge of legitimacy to various points of view before he comes down on his, and that point of view embraces complexity.” This awareness of complexity felt like a kind of politics itself and a repudiation of the Bush administration’s categorical thinking.

The fact that lots of Bill's supporters (who work in foreign policy) have thrown their lot in with Obama (and this article was published in early November, when he was still and underdog candidate) is very compelling to me. These are people who work in USFP for a a living and they find legitimacy in this man's leadership. More over the fact that he serves on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee would speak to his ability to understand the issues deeply.

(Also, I loved that in the article, they discussed the idea of soft leadership and how the US has lost that ability under Bush).

eta: I should also add that when I first read this article I was pretty much undecided and remained so for a long time. But I was impressed by folks in the know whom I do admire s(uch as Zbigniew Brzezinski and Jospeh Nye [even if Nye officially supports Clinton]) do think of Obama as having the leadership and the gravitas necessary to lead on foreign policy issues.

Moreover, I think Obama hits the nail on the head when he says, as it pertains to Hillary's experience, especially as it pertains to foreign policy, that people assume she got it osmotically from her husband by being present for things as a wife, which I think is both dangerously naive. I wouldn't assume that a surgeon's spouse had osmotically gotten the knowledge to perform an open-heart procedure just because he was married to a surgeon and the same is true with leadership.


DavidS - Feb 02, 2008 9:44:24 pm PST #6995 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I wouldn't assume that a surgeon's spouse had osmotically gotten the knowledge to perform an open-heart procedure just because he was married to a surgeon and the same is true with leadership.

That's a specious comparison to me. It's more like two heart surgeons who are married and one of them is a pioneer in heart transplants. When they talk shop they're speaking the same language.


Kat - Feb 02, 2008 9:49:41 pm PST #6996 of 10001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

I totally disagree, David. And I doubt that we'll come to an agreement on what constitutes experience, which is fine. I will say that it confounds me when the Clinton campaign tries to hammer home her experience.

For me, the least inspiring part of Clinton's campaign is the whole idea of experience because I don't think she has as much as she tries to pretend. 35 years in what capacity? Her experience as what? A lawyer in private practice (absolutely! She has a lot of that)? A senator (where she has more than Obama, but somewhat less than lots of for-lifers)? A first lady (which for me is the least compelling of all)?

I guess I just don't think spouse of president qualifies one to be president. Though, truth be told, I do think I would have preferred Barbara Bush to her husband.

Overall, I think if her opponent were anyone other than Obama, with his clear self-definition as an agent for change, she would work the change angle more and that would be, for me, much more exciting than experience that just isn't there.


erikaj - Feb 02, 2008 10:06:24 pm PST #6997 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!

My real "Guy" is out. I have a second choice, just for, you know, the horse race of it all, but really? Still wishing it had turned out for Edwards.


Kat - Feb 02, 2008 10:11:52 pm PST #6998 of 10001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

If Edwards were still in, I would have a harder time deciding who I wanted to support. Hell, the same is true of Richardson and Kucinich. It's kind of a problem with the current system (one of many) that those of us not in an early primary place have less choice.

I'm still awake and my nose is runny. I think my kid got me sick. Sigh.


Cass - Feb 02, 2008 10:13:32 pm PST #6999 of 10001
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I think my kid got me sick. Sigh.
They are squirmy petri dishes of charm and love.


DavidS - Feb 02, 2008 10:13:54 pm PST #7000 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I totally disagree, David.

And a Daley isn't mayor of Chicago? And Kennedys don't run for office? And Al Gore got nothing from his father? And Pelosi got nothing from her father's experience in Baltimore city politics?

Politics is a family business. It's not something you get from graduate school. Not the horrible, sausage-making aspect of it.

The difference between their platforms is marginal - except she's got a better handle on health care. But she knows a lot more about political infighting.


Kat - Feb 02, 2008 10:15:19 pm PST #7001 of 10001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

And sickness. Don't forget that Cass.

I'm also having a hard time trying to figure out who I want to root for in the Superbowl. I am over the Patriots, though I do like their zen-ish one game at a time perspective. But I like Eli Manning as the little-quarterback-who-could. Actually, I think I'm oddly charmed by the mythos of the whole Manning family.

Perhaps I'm overthinking this?


DavidS - Feb 02, 2008 10:19:55 pm PST #7002 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

FWIW, Kat we're not that far apart.

I would've voted for Edwards first, and thought Richardson was a strong choice.

I'm just afraid of Obama pulling a Carter - 4 and out, and 12 more years of Republicans.