It's sad that Rudy just being competent after a disaster is getting his this much cred. I mean, did he do anything other than not fuck up? (Ray Nagin, I'm looking at you)

It's sad that Rudy just being competent after a disaster is getting his this much cred. I mean, did he do anything other than not fuck up?

There's been some debate over how competent he really was (and that some of his policies prior to 9-11 made things worse that day). He projected competence and reassurance certainly, but I think he may have started his spin after Bush tanked it so badly in the aftermath.

I do wonder how much of the GOP base is more than dimly aware that Rudy Guliani did not spring fully formed from the head of the Statue of Liberty on September 12, 2001.

I was watching, of all things, a documentary about Broadway musicals, and they got to the transformation and Disney-fication of Times Square. They interviewed Michael Eisner, who talked about this theater that Disney renovated, but how he and the rest of the company weren't sure about Times Square and the adult-oriented businesses there.

He said something like "Rudy Guiliani said, 'They're gone.' And I said, 'But what about the ACLU...', and he said, 'Look at me. They're gone.'"

Eisner sounded both impressed and kind of scared.

The speeches he gave in the immediate aftermath were exactly what I, as a New Yorker, wanted and needed to hear. Looking back, there wasn't much in terms of actual action, but I am glad he was there at the time to say what needed to be said.

Which is to say, I would happily vote for Guliani to be Official Post-Disaster NYC Speechifyer, even if the thought of him as POTUS makes me run screaming for the Canadian hills.

Happy Birthday, sumi!!

I've seen that go both ways, fwiw. Protestants aren't in the TRUE church and all.

That's true. (I always liked the joke about the man who gets to Heaven and is given a tour by St. Peter, who points out, "And there are the Muslims, there are the Hindus, there are the Methodists, etc." and then the man asks about the big wall running along the back of Heaven, and St. Peter says, "Oh, behind there are the Catholics--they like to think that they're the only ones here.")

But, I did learn in CCD that Protestants were split out of the Catholic church and therefore part of the same tradition. From what ChiKat's told me, evangelicals have a tendency to think that Catholicism is the devil's religion and has nothing to do with their faith.

I was just at a training the other day where she used Giuliani as an example of having added "rapport" post-9/11 to his existing competence. So she showed a mayoral-era picture of him all scowl and comb-over and one more recent where he's smiling and practically shaking his own hands above his head in victory. (Rapport and competence being the two things you need to show both of in order to be seen as powerful and effective, according to this training.)

Yeah but Rudy really really hates liberals. A lot. And that seems to be the core religion of a lot of Christians. (I don't say "so-called Christians" because as a non-Christian, I don't feel qualified to judge who is and is not a Christian.)

I think the "certain kind of Christian Conservatives" are every bit as interested in hating sinners as hating liberals. And the guy is a hard core sinner.

Though on the other hand, his violent allergy to the bill of rights isn't anything that will trouble them.

The speeches he gave in the immediate aftermath were exactly what I, as a New Yorker, wanted and needed to hear. Looking back, there wasn't much in terms of actual action, but I am glad he was there at the time to say what needed to be said.

Particularly since the President was somewhere in a safe location shitting his pants or blind fucking drunk. (Video tape, people, give it a look-see. Don't try and tell me that you can't release any images of the guy because of security.).

I do wonder how much of the GOP base is more than dimly aware that Rudy Guliani did not spring fully formed from the head of the Statue of Liberty on September 12, 2001.

I think they will find out if the GOP primaries are a real race.

did he do anything other than not fuck up?

My father, who was a civil engineer in NYC at the time and a partner in the firm that supplied Rudy with the blueprints to the WTC (because one of the other partners was one of the engineers who designed the towers) and was involved in the post-disaster stuff tells me that Rudy's brilliance was in letting them do their job and letting them (and I'm paraphrasing Dad here) ignore regulations that would have slowed the projects down to a point where nothing could get done.

A Republican friend of mine sent me this "quiz" [link] to see which candidate I was closest to in beliefs. He and I have always gone back and forth on just how conservative I really am and he was curious who I'd get.

I got Giuliani, like he thought I would.

He wasn't expecting my score on Giuliani to be higher than his. By 20+ %-age points.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm voting for him so please don't pummel me!