Well sure, but that's just passing the buck. Why is it important that they learn that in a college math class, either? There are a very few students that are going to be regularly solving quadratic equations in real-world situations (engineers, physicists, etc) - but most of the people in both classes are learning that topic because people have always learned it.

I was actually just having this conversation with my officemate. Her answer to "Why do we have to learn this?" from her students is "Because you need to learn abstract reasoning skills, and math is the best way to do that. The actual subject matter doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the reasoning."

One of my friends is a professional ballet dancer. She's in a program now where they can take some college courses, in a schedule that's built around their performance schedule. (She started dancing with the professional company right out of high school.) Math was never her strong subject -- she studied enough that she did OK in the middle-level classes, but it was never something she was really great at. She took a calculus class a few years ago -- she has no need for it for a degree, there's no requirement that she take it, but she decided that it was something that she just ought to know. (That reminds me. When she started taking that class, I said that I'd sign up for a dance class, and I haven't done that yet.)

Also, I'd definitely put factoring into the category of "skill" rather than "knowledge." Knowing how to factor, in and of itself, is fairly pointless for most people. However, there are lots of other things that, in order to really understand them, you need to understand quadratic equations -- things like recognizing that the arc taken by a thrown object is a parabola, or seeing how falling objects accelerate, realizing that the amount of energy it takes to move something increases at a faster rate as the velocity increases -- and factoring is a skill that's needed to acquire the knowledge of quadratic equations -- you can't really think about them that much or play around too much if you can't factor them.

I'm not sure that everybody should have to learn it at a scheduled time. But without a major overhaul of the educational system, I don't really see a good alternative.

I was actually just having this conversation with my officemate. Her answer to "Why do we have to learn this?" from her students is "Because you need to learn abstract reasoning skills, and math is the best way to do that. The actual subject matter doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the reasoning."

FWIW, we had a middle-school German teacher use this line on us (about his job being to teach us to learn a language, not just actual German) and we laughed and laughed. Or more precisely. never got over bitching about what a ridiculous notion that was. Man, we were a bunch of horrid little beasts. But the point being, that may not be a convincing answer to that age at least.

Yeah, I've had mixed success when I've tried that line myself.

{{{Laga}}} I'm sorry about your conversation with your mom, but she is the type of person who will hear your concerns, I'm sure of it. My guess is that she was thinking about the hassle of gifts without considering the emotional impact. My mom and I had a similar conversation recently, and I know it came from her desire to simplify the holidays. Once we talked, though, she agreed that maybe presents were worthwhile.

I also know how much fun you always end up having at your family events, and I bet that Thanksgiving will be wonderful. Nonetheless, hugs for you.

Laura, I'd forgotten about that, but now I'm all upset on your behalf again. I hope the boys shape up this year.

thanks Kristin, Laura, Zenkitty and everyone for your kind words. Against my protestations Mom called and we had a good chat/cry but now my face hurts! Do you think a decongestant would help?

Sesame Street seasons 1 and 2 on DVD: Not suitable for children. [link]

Maybe a nice steam bath?

maybe a nice hot shower

OK had a shower, face feels better. Had some time to contemplate the fact that it is tough being the mom. Everybody dumps on her and she has noone to dump on. So sometimes she does crazy shit. Like forward your emails to the person you were talking about. For instance ...

"Last year I got Meg slippers that I had to go to three different stores for. When I finally found them they were on sale so I was able to buy her a bottle of Vodka and then I saw a bunch of flavored vodkas in a candy cane shaped plastic thingy by the checkout line so I had to get them too. (I always go over). I guess I should have known how little my gift meant to her by the fact that she never opened the candy-cane of vodkas"

and then I got...

"Thank you so much for my Christmas presents last year. I didn't mean to not drink the flavored vodkas, I forgot about them and was only reminded of them when I saw the empty bottles on the counter in the kitchen. I apologize for forgetting about them. Please forgive me."

Holy shit! What do I say?

Mom says, " think I've done enough damage for tonight..............I'm signing off..........."

!!!