Out of left field, the meeting stuff anyway. The actual killer part I had thought since ep 1 or 2.

Yeah, I was thinking I would have had the same feeling. Except I'm not sure whether I would have had him pegged him early.

About Elementary, I would just like to say I consider Holmes's observations and recommendations about Watson's love life to be... a little like when Spike kept trying to tell Buffy she belonged in the shadows with him.

I do note that since Joan went on to make dinner, she obviously has the sense to realize that Holmes may be a great detective, but is not someone to take advice from on your personal life

About Elementary, I would just like to say I consider Holmes's observations and recommendations about Watson's love life to be... a little like when Spike kept trying to tell Buffy she belonged in the shadows with him.

I'm not clear on this: do you mean that you think Sherlock has romantic feelings (or just pantsfeelings) for Joan, and is trying to bring her around to his way of thinking? Or that he just gives bad advice because he thinks she should share his views on romantic attachment?

I do note that since Joan went on to make dinner, she obviously has the sense to realize that Holmes may be a great detective, but is not someone to take advice from on your personal life

I didn't get that vibe from the final scene where she was setting the table. I got the vibe that she was conflicted.

I'm not clear on this: do you mean that you think Sherlock has romantic feelings (or just pantsfeelings) for Joan, and is trying to bring her around to his way of thinking? Or that he just gives bad advice because he thinks she should share his views on romantic attachment?

A little of all it, all smooshed together and swirling around in a blender. Since Holmes returned to NY he feels different in regard to Watson. His posture and stance look different. Something is off. The time apart seems to have made him crave her, in his emotionally repressed stiff-upper-lip way. Physically? Emotionally? Romantically? Sexually? Perhaps in just one or two dimensions, perhaps in all. The way he divides himself up, I don't think he would read the same "in love" as a more ordinary man would. Last season, I was feeling their chemistry as so utterly platonic that I imagined that they could conceivably fall into bed together to scratch the itch as friends then roll over and carry on fighting crime like they had done nothing more emotionally significant than single stick sparing. They would manage it more cleanly than the episode of Seinfeld when Jerry and Elaine tried to be friends with benefits. It would be a tougher sell for Watson because she does generally want more out of sex than Holmes does, but in the right circumstances she could choose "just sex". This season? It wouldn't work. Holmes could not carry it off any more because he wants too much intimacy (of all kinds, I think) with Watson. Watson would not want to try it because of annoyance and broken trust - and it does not feel to me as though her end of their chemistry has altered in the least.

It's not that I think Holmes wants to be in love with Watson, or would admit it if he were. I think if he could arrange the universe to suit his whims, he would bring Watson back to the brownstone, have her living and working with him for the rest of their lives in an intellectually and emotionally (as much as he can manage) intimate relationship all the while never touching her (because that way lies Adler/Moriarty madness), the two of them satisfying any sexual urges dispassionately elsewhere. If Holmes can convince Watson she can happily shed the desire for conventional relationship, he will be just that much closer to the relationship that he wants.

OK, I know McGarret has crossed a lot of lines on various occasions, but cutting down the tree may be too far for me.

At least they didn't get away with it.

I can't imagine Joan EVER using Holmes to scratch an itch. Not very far under the skin, he is emotionally volatile and unpredictable. Best case circumstance is he would use it as a weapon for the rest of their lives whenever he wants to annoy her. If Joan ever decides to have casual sex (and for all we know, she has on occasion) , IMO Holmes is the last person she'd ever choose.

-t, totally. That was awful. Felt more like out of character, sloppy writing than McGarrett line-crossing, I thought.

If Joan ever decides to have casual sex (and for all we know, she has on occasion) , IMO Holmes is the last person she'd ever choose.

You are not wrong. I was imagining it happening after years of successful partnership in which they had grown very comfortable. Sure as shootin' it won't happen now, as weird as Holmes is being about Watson now,