White also said he didn't understand the uproar over dogfighting, when hunting deer and other animals is perfectly acceptable.

yes! This is the rhetorical fallacy known as tu quoque. Also, it's apples and oranges (another fallacy), as you all have clearly demonstrated.

And anyway, deer-hunting requires licensure, right? And safety measures, and ugly orange clothes, and other requirements to make it as safe as possible to the general public. Fighting dogs, OTOH, are by definition not made safe to the general public. (Watch those Animal Cops shows some time: the vast majority of rescued fighting dogs have to be put down, because they can't be untrained back to "nice doggy" territory.) Even if there weren't moral reasons to have laws against dog-fighting, there are plenty of civic reasons.

ICompletelyON, Tamara, much ~ma to you and your mother. I thought the universe was supposed to back off from Buffista relatives for a bit; there's been much too much sadness and stress and worry lately.

(Watch those Animal Cops shows some time: the vast majority of rescued fighting dogs have to be put down, because they can't be untrained back to "nice doggy" territory.)

I can't watch those shows anymore, especially the one in Detroit where dog fighting seems to be a regional pass time if the number of incidents they film is any indication.

yes! This is the rhetorical fallacy known as tu quoque.

t sniffle

Nutty skipped and skimmed me.

The league needs to answer why they hire individuals prone to commit violent felonies in the first place.

As far as this goes. 1) Saying the people they hire are predisposed to violence makes me incredibly uncomfortable, as I find it with it's toes a little too close to racism. 2) I don't think it's that they're more prone, I think the current NFL atmosphere encourages it. I think many fans encourage it. If that's your team, and that asshole is going to take them to the 'Bowl you'll excuse all kinds of behavior. That kind of worship not to mention the surrounding "yes" men fame and a star athelete's salary can command, lead to a huge sense of entitlement. 3) It takes some incredibly disciplined leadership to take the kind of environment soaked in money/fame/entitlement/violence to stop that kind of crap, and that's difficult for some coaches when if they're too authoritative-they're fired for rubbing the owner the wrong way (Yep, Jerry, I'm looking at you) or pissing off too many "star players."

In conclusion: Yes there is a problem with professional sports players and illegal behavior and something needs to be done, but I don't think the NFL has a thug recruitment policy.

No?

8/13/07: Vikings sign DT Fred Evans while he is still facing misdemeanor charges of disorderly conduct and trespassing, and "multiple" felony counts of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a police officer

I don't mean to gloss your point, obviously there are a lot of contributing factors to this. But while there may be no "thug recruitment policy" there certainly is a thug tolerance level that in a lot of ways crosses over to thug encouragement.

especially the one in Detroit where dog fighting seems to be a regional pass time if the number of incidents they film is any indication.

Sadly, it is very much a huge problem here in southeastern Michigan. Huge.

Speaking of things that are crimes, check out the spelling: [link]

Ugh. How depressing, all the dogfighting and violence! Cheer up, Natter! Let's talk about sunshine and kittens! And, um, not doing anything awful to them.

Chat rooms aren't static like our posts are. Communication is happening much closer to real time. No meara there.

And it would be very very sad if there were no meara here! :)

my personal feelings is that anyone who can be cruel to an animal(who can't defend themselves no matter how "vicious" a breed they are) would have no trouble hurting a human. especially a child. i have no patience whatsoever for people who think it's okay to do anything remotely heinous to an animal.

I hope Vick rots. maybe he could take his buddy White with him...

Tamara, much ~ma to your mom and you.