Given how the show has recently emphasized the fact that possession victims can be saved under the right circumstances, I would hope that the side of good would prefer an "Everybody lives!" sort of victory to a scorched earth one.

Now that made me sniffly. You can tell we watch the same shows.

Good point. Oooh, I also wonder, IF Castiel is not necessarily on the up-and-up, if Sam could tell and/or exorcise him?

Or even if he is? I mean, Castiel IS a possessing spirit? He's filling a container -- Sam empties containers. Does it matter if it's full of milk or moonshine?

Didn't think about that. Maybe Castiel doesn't talk to Sammy because Sammy is powerful enough to boot his ass out of the vessel. I'm sure at this point, Sammy wouldn't know that, but if Castiel pushed him, he might find that out. It's a game of poker with agendas and maybe the angels (and God) don't want to show their hand to Sam yet.

I mean, Castiel IS a possessing spirit? He's filling a container -- Sam empties containers. Does it matter if it's full of milk or moonshine?

Good point. We know that some demons (at least) are fallen humans. I'm assuming that others might be fallen angels (e.g. ones on a par with Azazel and Lilith)

That's one container Sam really shouldn't empty. We know that Castiel out of his container is bad for humans (and other containers).

Plus... we all seem to like Castiel's current container.

That's one container Sam really shouldn't empty. We know that Castiel out of his container is bad for humans (and other containers).

Another good point. Not really milk or moonshine, but milk or plutonium.

I think - a. that the Angels mainly want Dean to spy out what Sam is doing - they don't want to burn his eyes if they don't have to.

And didn't YED pick specific families to do the blood feedings with? It may suggest that there is something in those families that is conducive to use of power.

Perhaps any random person in the SPN-verse can't just say the words and use the tools and get results, after all.

So....why Dean W.? I mean, good guy, fights against evil. BUT in the larger picture, he really is NOT extraordinarily good. His appeal is based on being ordinarily, conflicted good.

I was theorizing that Dean was eligible for the "get of Hell" card because he wasn't thrown into Hell for committing evil deeds; he was there because he willingly sacrificed himself to save someone else. (Kind of -- he called up a demon and made a deal, which I doubt the Heavenly courts would regard in a positive light.) But overall, would it fall under the "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" directive?

But overall, would it fall under the "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" directive?

Oh, yes. There's no denying Dean is working for the good, made a deal for unselfish (mostly -- oh, sad Dean!) reasons. He's eligible. I'm just thinking that, on the grand scale, there have been many people who have performed unselfish acts of good and are, in the SPN verse with the deals and the actual hell and the...um...evil shrimp....yeah, anyway, I'm just saying that Dean's act of goodness is probably not unique. I don't see him as necessarily the MOST eligible. So why him? There's got to be something else.

The SPN verse, so far, is a good/bad kind of verse. Good v. evil, and the classic, I guess, quantam religious physics is that there must exist a balance of power. There's a constant strugle for dominance, but in general, it stabilizes (kind of) into a type of balance. Therefore, most deals with evil must be honored, I think.

And I can see ways to refute my argument. I need to go to bed.

Erin, I think you've got it there... it's all about balance. Dean balances Sam, so maybe the angels (who are probably clueless about what Sam can do, or will do) think that having Dean back will help rebalance the scale. They probably don't care much about his well-being beyond that.

The SPN verse, so far, is a good/bad kind of verse. Good v. evil, and the classic, I guess, quantam religious physics is that there must exist a balance of power. There's a constant strugle for dominance, but in general, it stabilizes (kind of) into a type of balance. Therefore, most deals with evil must be honored, I think.

This is something that we are seeing for the first time this season though and I think we are all struggling with if there is Good v evil, or has been mentioned evil v evil playing Dean like a fiddle. If Castiel is genuinely a messenger of God, then there is the balance to the evil we have seen over the past three years. If he is not, then SPN goes back to being a dimension where demons and other beasties run around and the only good in the world are the rag tag band of hunters that try and protect people. John was able to escape Hell through an open door and there wasn't any consequence to this action. At that point, there wasn't any precedent of balance.

IMHO, I don't think there is anything more special about Dean than he is the one person in the world that would stand a chance giving the yellow crayon speech and stopping Sam. If there is a Good side in this, I think they just went in a back door and smuggled him out of hell. Evil couldn't do anything besides stomp their cloven hoof and say, "damnit."

I think YED was pushing right up to the absolute edge of the rules when he bled into the kids with their parents rather than their own consent. So good is pushing the rules a bit too - not breaking them, but stepping a lot closer to the line than usual.