And wanting Dean to have a home... I lack the immediate references. Refresh me, was this an "eventually" or an "I always wanted you to have one"? Because the former seems like a natural wish "I hope I kill the sons of bitches who killed your mother and then you can have a normal life" vs. "I tried to give you a normal life despite trying to catch the sons of bitches who killed your mother.". Or something else?

It's from Salvation.

"I want to stop losing people we love. I want you to go to school. I want, I want Dean to have a home. I want Mary alive. I just... I just want this to be over."

Ah, thanks!

It seems that it might be concluded that these are recent wishes... Or maybe they have been the wishes of John from the get-go. I tend to think that they are more recent realizations in his life. Or long-suppresseed wishes that the end-in-sightness of his journey had let him see.

I think they're wishes, pipe dreams, and regrets all rolled up together.

I've spent since Thursday thinking again about how fucked (and fucked up) they are. Dean at not quite 13 is already stealing things to provide and lying to try to make everything better.

Interesting that Sam twigs to the fact that Dean stole the presents. He may even acknowledge the sentiment behind the act. But he's more affected than any of them admit, because he doesn't remonstrate with Dean about stealing.

It allows him to be protected from harsh reality and to benefit from the kinder parts of that protection. Always was a self-entitled little guy, but John and Dean helped make him that way.

I'm sure Christmas was never celebrated with all the trimmings, but I have a hard believing he would have written it off.

Off the top of my head, it's worth positing that, like Dean, John gave up Christianity thanks to spousal flambé. If he's not a Christian any more, in the acrimonious-divorce sense, then it's not too much of a leap to posit that he would give up all the Christian holidays.

(I do think it's fair to assume he was a Christian beforehand, of what kind and how faithful we don't know; his kids are just too culturally Christian for something else to be the case. Although wouldn't it be hilarious for John to get home three days later and be like, "Boys, did we not JUST have Hanukkah? Just because your mother was a shiksa doesn't mean that double-dipping is okay in this family!")

dies laughing

it's not too much of a leap to posit that he would give up all the Christian holidays.

Mm, yeah, in the sense of celebrating it religiously, sure. But as cultural Christians, I think it would be hard for him to totally throw it over if the kids are getting bombarded with the holiday messages at school and with friends. "Dad, how come we don't have a tree?"

I love Nutty. Now I must make up a backstory in which Winchester is an Ellis Island Anglicization of Wijiecewicz.

I am however disappointed that they had to make John blow off Christmas with his children in order to make Sam bond even closer to Dean. Does Kripke realize how completely fucked up these guys are?

But they didn't. John could have missed Christmas because he was off on a hunt, off on a bender, in the hospital, captured by monsters, blowing money on hookers and coke, saving little children from being eaten by trolls, lost track of the calendar, got locked in a college library over break by mischievous elves and had to survive on vending machine food for two weeks ... We don't know why he doesn't show because eight-year-old Sam doesn't care why. Dean cares why. Sam just cares that it happens.

I like this episode more the more I think about it, because it's consistent with previous characterization in all sorts of deepening ways. Back in "Scarecrow" and then again in "Salvation," Sam said that he was grateful to Dean because Dean always had his back; because Dean was always there. Not being there is Sam's cardinal sin, and it's one he commits to go to college. Now I think he was entirely right to do so, but I bet not all of Sam thinks so.

Mm, yeah, in the sense of celebrating it religiously, sure. But as cultural Christians, I think it would be hard for him to totally throw it over if the kids are getting bombarded with the holiday messages at school and with friends. "Dad, how come we don't have a tree?"

Probably true. Or, more likely, the not-celebration of Christmas would already be a resolved issue by the time Sam was eight, and the discussion would be more along the lines of, "But I'm tired of claiming I'm a Jehovah's Witness!"

(I'm pretty sure they don't celebrate Christmas, or anyway not in the standard shopping-frenzy way.)

I have skipped over a large part to ask if anyone else has a season pass from itunes for Supernatural? I do, and I have not gotten this episode yet, so I am curious if it is a "me" problem or an itunes problem