I didn't read Ruby's fallen angel comment as a literal confession of being such, so much as a witticism. In fact, I don't recall any evidence that even Azazel was ever an actual fallen angel—that could easily be a myth about an absent/imaginary Lucifer that the demons developed as their religion and spread to humanity over the years.

I didn't read Ruby's fallen angel comment as a literal confession of being such, so much as a witticism.

This is what I think the show is going for. Though the idea that she could be Lucifer, grooming Sam to take over as the Antichrist is... kinda delicious. Too much for Show, maybe, but...

In fact, I don't recall any evidence that even Azazel was ever an actual fallen angel

The Azazel in the show, or Azazel the angel/demon/whatever from mythology?

From the show. I realize in Christian demonology all demons are regarded as fallen angels, and Azazel is one of the big name ones. But in the show we know some demons have been spawned by other demons, and their ultimate origins seem to be a matter of faith rather than historical record or personal remembrance. I guess with old Yellow Eyes destroyed, we don't have any real authorities to clear up the mystery.

One episode made me specualte that in the Supernaturalverse demons are just angry ghosts that grew powerful and independent, losing most of their original selves.

But in the show we know some demons have been spawned by other demons, and their ultimate origins seem to be a matter of faith rather than historical record or personal remembrance.

I kinda wonder if that "son" and "daughter" thing that Yellow Eyes was spouting was metaphorical. (Or, you know, they're going with new and fun definitions of "traditional" fallen angel/demon ideas. And by "new and fun" I mean "pulled out of their collective asses."

One episode made me specualte that in the Supernaturalverse demons are just angry ghosts that grew powerful and independent, losing most of their original selves.

That's a really cool idea. (Also, which episode?)

IMTOD?

So, is it a moral failing if all the demon-cosmology talk is Blah blah blah sulfur, blah blah blah bad hair day? Because, I have to say, I don't care the first thing about who demons are, how they got that way, what they want, or who does their hair. I find it so incredibly boring, and can't imagine how it can really matter to the storyline without the storyline going severely kerblooey from where it's gone in the past. I mean, this is a show where every problem can be solved with a chain saw (or similar) -- while I often ask for more intelligent plotting, it's not wordiness I'm asking for.

I think I might be a little more interested if it weren't so closely based on cod-Christian stuff, but mostly I'm just like, "Yes, horror movie details, is this part of the torture, or can we just move on directly to the evisceration?"

On Edit: Yeah IMTOD

Avert thine eyes, Nutty.

Part of the Lucifer myth-busting (that may or may not be in the link I... linked) (and as I understood it) is that not only is Lucifer a misnomer for Satan (rather it was a line of mockery directed at Satan, calling him "Morning Light/Star"), but that there is no mention in the Bible that states that Satan was once an angel that fell from heaven/God's grace. Maybe there is other text, apocryphal or not, that relates this story, but it's not in teh Bible.

I kinda wonder if that "son" and "daughter" thing that Yellow Eyes was spouting was metaphorical.

This was my interpretation. Son or daughter = follower. Of course, the other way is interesting too. Star-crossed lover demons who met, flayed and maimed, fell in love and had kids.

Yeah IMTOD

I thought Tessa was telling Dean that "angry spirits" were born from those ghosts that refused to cross over, not that they turned into demons. I assumed she was just talking about ghosts that cause problems and need to be handled like the Roadkill guy. I think about demons as a seperate monster. Am I misremembering the conversation or was there another reference in that episode? 'Cause that would be really interesting.

I am loving all the demonology and talk of Lucifer and Azazel. Anything that portrays Angels as something terrifying and without white wings and a halo, and I am hooked. I didn't see the show going this way, but I will be so very happy if they follow through with this. That's just...neat!