Yeah, but by Shadow, I think it was pretty well established which one secretly reads Cosmo and watches Lifetime. So I still think my beloved Amyth is wrong like a wrong thing that's wrong.

Although guess I can leave room for the interpretation that John actually had two daughters...

But fall I did, and if I can claim that I played a part in pulling some of you in after me, then I'm a proud fangirl.

Between you, amyth and Plei, I got entangled and just so damn invested. Then Lee brought S1 dvds and I was lost forever.

Though early S1 does remind me of why I didn't stay at first. A mini-horror movie each week? No, thank you. I practice judicious watching through my fingers with this show.

But that squee was legendary.

But then, my unwritten paper is titled "Dean and Demeter: Every Day is Mother's Day" or something and I've been known to burble about how Dean can be read as commentary on the sacrifices of the stay at home parent.

I would read that paper. IJS.

That's one of the things that intrigues me about Dean. There is so much about the character that is stereotypically macho, but it didn't take long (probably because I was reading y'all's commentary) for me to spot that Dean's role is as much maternal as it is fraternal.

I think this jumped out at me the most in DMB when Dean was trying to get John and Sam to back down from their head-butting contest.

I started watching SPN because Everyone Was Doing It, and I figured I'd give the first season a shot. I'm not really into horror or generic WB pretty, so I didn't expect to like it. I watched a couple of episodes and thought, hey, it was a neat little show, maybe I could go with it.

And then Dean hit me like a freight train.

It's not that he's pretty, although it certainly helps; it's just that he's so complicated and unlikely and broken and problematically gendered!

It's not that he's pretty, although it certainly helps; it's just that he's so complicated and unlikely and broken and problematically gendered!

Oh, I want to pet this sentence and hold it close.

OMG it ate my post.

t cries

What Bev Said, Plei. You devoured the season in order from the beginning. Amyth didn't start watching w/ the sound on until "Nightmare" and I think "Shadow" make have been my first full episode.

It's true that in how Dean relates to Sam and to kids, he's very maternal and nurturing. But in how he relates to the rest of the world, he's totally old school Han Solo macho.

Dean - get job done, kill the evil thing, bang the hot chicks, hey! free food, don't talk about emotions

Sam - make sure everyone's okay, moral relativity and empathy, women are PEOPLE, jeez, Dean, bitchface bitchface, uncontrollable powers

This starts to shift some in s2 (Nightshifter comes to mind), but in s1 I think it was pretty solid.

But in how he relates to the rest of the world, he's totally old school Han Solo macho.

Dean totally would have shot first.

Though, one might argue (ok, by "one" I mean "I") that Han Solo's machismo is just as put-upon as Dean's. Not that I'm saying Han's a nurturer or anything. But if he was as much of a hard-ass as he tried to appear, he would have ditched Luke and Obi-Wan as soon as shit started to go down.

Perhaps he's compensating for something. He was pretty butch.

It's not that he's pretty, although it certainly helps; it's just that he's so complicated and unlikely and broken and problematically gendered!

I just wanted to see this again.

It's very pretty.

As long as we're admiring the shiny,

It's not that he's pretty, although it certainly helps; it's just that he's so complicated and unlikely and broken and problematically gendered!

...yeah.

I've been trying to compose a thought on the perception of Sam as the softer-seeming, empathetic and more passive partner, vs. Dean as more action-oriented, impatient with sentiment, and naturally suspicious of anyone outside the family, and how that maps onto gender roles.

I think a lot of Sam's perceived softness, at least first season, came from being the baby of the family, having been protected from as much as possible of the wetwork and the trauma. In hindsight, I understand why John might have done what he could to minimize Sam's contact with anything that might start his countdown, while at the same time toughening Dean up to be Sam's watchdog. But aside from the supernatural connotations, the results on their human psyches are far from what any parent would wish for his kids.

I look at Sam in Faith, and it seems like the first time he's responsible, without Dad's backup, for Dean's life. That he steps into the job and actually exhausts all his contacts and comes up with a lead is both gratifying and galvanizing. That the faith healer turns out to be something more sinister is a crisis of conscience for Sam, but the fact remains: he saved his brother. He may feel terrible about the method, but Dean's still here. I think that was a turning point for Sam. He began to try to step into an adult role in the partnership, which meant relinquishing being the "baby", the one everybody else cared for first and protected. That must have been a liberating moment, if indeed he actually recognized it.

That Dean had a harder time accepting Sam in a more equal role is, I think, apparent. He still looks first to Sam's welfare, long after that sort of protection and concern is no longer needed.

Their roles in the family inform their dealings with outsiders, too. Dean comes off as suspicious and brusque, whereas Sam is softer, empathetic. He uses his natural curiosity that has never really been squelched to reach out and examine others' circumstances. He uses his natural outgoing nature to connect on a superficial level with strangers and "clients". He uses his natural charm, honed, like his curiosity and ability to connect with people, by years away from the hunting life and the protective nature of his family, to make those easy, non-threatening connections.

Dean sees a lot, he instinctively understands a lot. He's reluctant to allow connections to form with strangers, but that doesn't preclude an empathetic response. He's just better at concealing it, tamping it down and not letting it interfere with the job to be done. In fact, what often helps fuel his eagerness to get the job done is his empathy and understanding. But opening up to a stranger means exposing his own weakness, and he won't do that, except for kids, and weaker individuals who probably won't take advantage of him.

Conclusion: Dean connects on a deeper, more emotional level, while Sam's connection is intellectual and social.